Got My (freshwater) Snowflake Eel Today :)

phlawed

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Still hasnt some out much yet, he has burried himself under a rock for now. going to get him some pvc pipe tomorrow after school if i have time. actual name of the eel is Gymnothorax tile moray eel for those wondering. He will acclimate with puffer into saltwater conditions. So far so good. LFS said they would refund money if GSP kills him. But keeping a close eye on them. I kept him a seperate tank while drip acclimating him from 1.005(fish store water) to 1.011 for about 6 hours. He accepted everything well and looks to be fine thus far. I will get some pics in probably a week or so once he gets use to the place a little more.
 

CFC

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You have a Gymnothorax tile in a 20g with a GSP!!!?

Do you realise that G.tile will grow to at least 2 feet long and can grow to over 3 feet, i have two both of which are over 2 feet long and a couple of inches thick. To keep it you're going to need a mimimum of a 75g tank and one twice that size is prefferable, also it is VERY likely that the eel will eat the puffer.
 
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phlawed

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You have a Gymnothorax tile in a 20g with a GSP!!!?

Do you realise that G.tile will grow to at least 2 feet long and can grow to over 3 feet, i have two both of which are over 2 feet long and a couple of inches thick. To keep it you're going to need a mimimum of a 75g tank and one twice that size is prefferable, also it is VERY likely that the eel will eat the puffer.

lol yes yes i know, they get their tank this summer. their size is usually 24-28". a Gtile over 36" in captivity is very highly unlikely, probably impossible. At 4" now i high doubt he will eat the puffer lol. Also, this Gymnothorax has the smallest mouth of the species. So even at max size of 24", his food source will remain smaller than others of his family. he is also one of the least aggressive of this batch. A 6" puffer i think would be a stretch to eat if you ask me.
 

CFC

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I have personally seen the destructive power of a G.tiles jaws when one of ours filleted the side off of a 6"+ columbian shark cat neatly cutting the flesh away right down to the spine, any fish that the eel can fit its mouth around can be eaten should the eel take a fancy to it..
I dont see why 36" in captivity is so unlikely, our largest is around the 28" mark and is under 2 years old having trippled in size since we got it, in a large enough tank with regular feeding of suitable foods and the correct enviroment there is no reason for them not to reach their maximum potential size in 5-6 years.
 

Dave Legacy

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Even if the GSP doesn't fit in the eel's mouth it doesn't mean the wound wont kill it. My green wolf eel will max out at 18" and has crustacean crushing teeth... I still check everyday to make sure the GSP is still there. If you have to, seperate them.
 
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phlawed

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Even if the GSP doesn't fit in the eel's mouth it doesn't mean the wound wont kill it. My green wolf eel will max out at 18" and has crustacean crushing teeth... I still check everyday to make sure the GSP is still there. If you have to, seperate them.


I will keep a close eye on it. I researched G-tile alot over the last few weeks. It wasnt an impulse buy by any means. I have yet to find any over 28". Im not saything they are not out there, but this is just what im noticing. But, I monitor it over the next months, if i see anything looking down between the two, then ill return the eel. Love your green wold eel btw Dave, saw the pics the other day.
 
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phlawed

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CFC, I am taking what your saying very seriously, especially being an owner on one and what not, but i have done a crap load of research and am not finding max sizes over 28". Do you have anything to back up this claim of over 36"? There are 3 Gymnothorax eels. are you sure yours is a tile? I know your a high senior member so i know your sure, but still, it seems a bit odd in 2 months of research to never hear of a 36+ Gymnothorax tile eel. Maybe I have just been looking in all the wrong places. Do you have any links for me that would help me in this? If this is true, then i will probably just get him his own brack tank for a few years while i concentrate on puffers saltwater acclimation. But, i have read many journals and reports of these two and the Gymnothorax tile being kept with many other fish without problems. Only problems i read about was with cleaning crews and smaller fish that were easily hunted. I hardly consider a GSP a easily hunted fish, being its a preditor fish.

Example
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/archive/in...php/t-9811.html
I know this is not the most scientific link, but it still shows how sometimes they are confused with other eels. I would say 75% of my research has said they will do fine with puffers, unless the eel grows large enough to swallow the puffer in one bite. I could post 50+ links right now from encyclopedia's to universities research, not one of them mentions anything over 28". Some even say some other their older specimens never grew over 20" and are over 10 years old.

Believe me when i say im not trying to prove you wrong, as i respect your opinion, and that has caused me to look into this a bit deeper. But, I am not finding anything what so ever that goes outside of what i have already found.
 
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phlawed

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Ok, accecpting all your advise, if this does become a problem, how long or well would a 55g brack tank work for him/her hehe. The reason being, i can get a 55g tank up and running for only about $150 u.s. (not wal-mart specials either haha). But will be setting up a 58-75g saltwater soon, so if i have to seperate them, the eel would have to be in the 55 until more money comes around as im sure the saltwater tank will drain some funds pretty fast. But, if they can be paired, i would save the money from the 55g and just get a 100g setup or something. So what would be your advise on this? Do you think keeping them young together might help in them being tankmates in the future? Damn, you got my mind spinning now lol, shows how much like advise from these forums though :D

btw, just saw him out swimming about and seems to be settled in fine, he found a good hole in some of the rocks i have piled up and has dug numerous spots under other rocks. So he is atleast out moving around, which i heard is sometimes not seen for first few weeks in new homes. I have yet to try feeding. There are few ghost shrimp in the tank still so if he is really hungry, im sure he will make lunch of them pretty fast.
 

CFC

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I have owned all but one of the species mentioned in that link and still have two species (G.tile and E.rhodocheilus), until fairly recently we had a 42" Gymnothorax afer which we had for a number of years before its strange and sudden death, only the G.polyurandon has eluded me as they are extreemly rare in the trade.

My personal feeling is that the vast majority of fish keepers have never seen a full grown G.tile since they are usually kept in mildly brackish water at best and more often freshwater so their recorded size is lower than is possible, i became skeptical of their apperent 24" adult size when the first of ours reached that size in under 2 years and showed no sign of its growth slowing, when these fish eat it is not uncommon for them to take down as many as 18 silver sides/whitebait which is something a fish that had reached its full potential normally wouldnt do. On top of this IDs are often innaccurate with at least 50% of sources mistakenly identifying G.tile as G.polyuranodon and vice versa so who knows which measurements were taken from which fish.
Their predatory power is also vastly underestimated as we have found to our shock on a couple of occasions, firstly when a 12" eel took down a full grown 4"+ sailfin molly and secondly with the shark cat filleting episode, Gymnothorax eels are out and out fish eaters with mouth full of teeth designed for dicing and slicing. That isnt to say that they cant be kept with tankmates, our live with large gobies scats and mono's without problems but it is wise not to keep them with anything you would be sad to find bitten in two.

A 55g will hold the eel for a while at least and is definately better than a 20g but for long term keeping of a G.tile i wouldnt recomend anything less than a 4x2x2' (120g?)
 

nmonks

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Excellent post, CFC.

As I understand it, all Gymnothorax eels are piscivores, while Echidna species feed on invertebrates, and have crushing rather than biting teeth. In theory at least, the brackish water Echidna rhodochilus could be kept with tankmates relatively easily, and being a much smaller fish, might make a better choice. Schafer in the Aqualog book says that his Gymnothorax eels regularly eat things even as large as scats and marine butterflies, and even the groupers had scars and scratches indicating failed attacks. Part of the problem is these fish hunt by smell: they have no idea the size of the target, and simply attack, and then see if what they have bitten can be subdued.

To be honest though, if you really want to make life simple, a spaghetti eel (Moringua raitaborua) would be even better. These fish are completely benign (except perhaps to guppy-sized fish) as they feed primarily on bloodworms and other such insect larvae. They can live in freshwater a long time (perhaps indefinitely) and certainly aren't picky about salinity in a brackish tank. Not common, but they are available. They are very retiring and nocturnal, and in a tank with lots of rocks, should evade all but the most single mindedly aggressive puffer.

Cheers,

Neale
 

Nevergone815

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Excellent post, CFC.

As I understand it, all Gymnothorax eels are piscivores, while Echidna species feed on invertebrates, and have crushing rather than biting teeth. In theory at least, the brackish water Echidna rhodochilus could be kept with tankmates relatively easily, and being a much smaller fish, might make a better choice. Schafer in the Aqualog book says that his Gymnothorax eels regularly eat things even as large as scats and marine butterflies, and even the groupers had scars and scratches indicating failed attacks. Part of the problem is these fish hunt by smell: they have no idea the size of the target, and simply attack, and then see if what they have bitten can be subdued.

To be honest though, if you really want to make life simple, a spaghetti eel (Moringua raitaborua) would be even better. These fish are completely benign (except perhaps to guppy-sized fish) as they feed primarily on bloodworms and other such insect larvae. They can live in freshwater a long time (perhaps indefinitely) and certainly aren't picky about salinity in a brackish tank. Not common, but they are available. They are very retiring and nocturnal, and in a tank with lots of rocks, should evade all but the most single mindedly aggressive puffer.

Cheers,

Neale

thanks neale. i have been thinking of getting a "snowflake eel" myself, but after hearing about different sized species, i don't want to be stuck with a huge one. i think i will look into these spaghetti eels you tal about. thans again! :good:
 

nmonks

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Here's the spaghetti eel on Fishbase:

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=17226

If you're in the UK, the Aquatic Design Centre in London gets them fairly frequently, and they cost about 10 UKP each, if I recall correctly. I also spotted at least one US web site that sells a related species, M. microchir, mail order. According to the Fishbase entry, it's a brackish water species, too. Frank's Crustacean Farm has had the "freshwater" spaghetti eel, M. raitaborua, in stock before, so you might e-mail him about when he's getting some more.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_di...cfm?pcatid=1738
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=8051

Cheers,

Neale

thanks neale. i have been thinking of getting a "snowflake eel" myself, but after hearing about different sized species, i don't want to be stuck with a huge one. i think i will look into these spaghetti eels you tal about.
 

~T~

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I had a G.tile for a while in a 30 gal brackish tank with a few scats until I got bored with the tank.Being an eel thats very flexible I would say you should be fine with him in the 20gal for a while but will require a much bigger tank in time.They are quite slow growers and are not that active.However if it can catch the puffer it will, I personally know of someones G.tile eating their 3 puffers in the space of a few days.Mine tried to grab my scats a few times but they didnt seem to care :lol: Is he eating ok as mine was a bit picky at first.I had him on prawns, lancefish, mussel and the odd molly if he could catch them.I love the way they curl round their food like a boa.
 
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phlawed

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I have taken your advise and plan on doing the following.....

In a few weeks im going to get a 55g 48" tank...I will make this a lower end brackish tank for the eel 1.005 so i can run a few plants in it as well. Next I will get another 55g tank and move my 37g planted over to the 55g which will probably work out better in the long run considering some of my fish. I can get a good light at our local hardware store that will fit over the 48" making it good for plants as well. I have enough left over supplies to get both of the 55's running very well. From there, I will convert my 37g tall tank into the puffer's marine tank. I have the lights, filtration, uv, and everything else needed for the marine conversion so this is probably the best choice. How does this sound? The 55g will be temporary (first year or so on eel).
 

CFC

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The eel would do better in higher end brackish water rather than lower, i keep ours at 1.016-1.018 SG .
 

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