Goldfish In With Tropical Fish

[fishguy2727]

I have to disagree. If this is from experience please make it known.

I have kept goldfish in both and it is not 'double the waste'. It is a little more with warmer temps, but no more than the same bioload of tropical fish at the same temp (such as a cichlid tank).

They can easily eat enough to grow much better not barely keep weight. I don't know where the magic number of 75F came from. I have kept them at 82F and they grew like weeds and were healthy as they could be.

It should not be an issue at all to keep enough oxygen in the tank. With all the aeration options any tank today should well exceed any needed aeration.

Goldfish are from tropical areas. The following map shows where they are native to in blue and all the countries they have been introduced to and naturalized in (meaning they now have stable or growing populations in the wild in these nations). The native area includes Laos and Myanmar, very tropical. As you can see from the red they are naturalized in effectively every nation our tropical fish come from. This means that out in the real world right now our tropical fish species are swimming around with healthy goldfish populations (not gasping and wasting away from the temp). The information for this map was taken from fishbase.org (a site maintained and used by scientists, not hobbyists).

My sarassa goldfish bred in my tank when kept in tropical conditions (with discus and an amazonian catfish). This was two years ago. Only recently (past month or so) have my fancies bred at room temp in my tanks.

 

[raptorrex]

I have to disagree. If this is from experience please make it known.

I have kept goldfish in both and it is not 'double the waste'.
.

Double was not supposed to be definitive. wrong term by me there.
however, the goldie will suffer, and at higher temps not be able to eat enough to avoid starvation, or emaciation. its waste will be vastly more than a tropical tank. as goldies already produce far more waste than tropical's if kept in the temperate range.

I'll stand by my comments. mainly because it makes biological sense. as well as the veracity of the sources.


Keep Goldies in un heated tanks. that makes it simple.

 

[StandbySetting]

Care to share these sources?

Just to add a bit to this debate, studies have shown that Goldfish do absolutely fine at around 25[sup]o[/sup]C, it's just their metabolic rate that increases, it's when you get up to about 28-30oC that problems occur due to the denaturing of enzymes.

The only thing that can result of keeping Goldfish at say tropical temperatures is more water changes.

Most Goldfish kept indoors are by definition kept in tropical temperatures anyway as room temperature tends to hover around 20-21[sup]o[/sup]C

 

[fishguy2727]

Ditto. Care to share where you are getting this info? Did you not read the facts in my last post? Did you not view the video of goldfish breeding in the same tank as discus?

I have never seen anything to support the idea that goldfish will suffer and can't even get enough to eat to prevent losing weight at higher temps.

Their waste is no more than the same size cichlid's.

I am a Biologist, it does not make sense to assume these things with absolutely no factual support. It makes sense that an animal that lives in the tropics in the wild can live in tropical temps in captivity. It does NOT make biological sense that a fish that can thrive in the tropics in the wild can't thrive in the same conditions in captivity.

"as well as the veracity of the sources." What does this mean?

 

[Ludwig Venter]

I have absolutely no problem with keeping Goldfish and tropicals together.....as long as there is no bullying and the tank size allows for it, why not??

For most of the year, (in SA), I remove my heaters in my inside tanks (where I keep the tropicals) anyways and the temps remain in excess of 25 deg C, but my outside ponds (where I keep my Goldfish) are mostly well above this.... So, if temps are the motivating factor.... ??

I currently have a number of my BN fry in with my Black Moore fry (to help out with the excess foods and algae growth) and at one stage had some Black Moores in with my Guppies - No problem.

 

[Fishy friend2]

i have goldfish in tropical conditions with danios and ghost shrimp they are fine

 

[Caprichoso]

I don't like the idea of keeping goldfish in warm fish tanks for two reasons. Usually the tank is too small and the fish seem more prone to bacterial infections. I think I would be willing to change my mind on this if the people who kept goldfish in warm tanks were able to keep them healthy, free of disease and have them live to the age they are supposed to live, which if they are healthy can be around 20 years give or take.

I know a few people who have summer goldfish ponds and in the winter they bring the fish indoors. The only person I know that doesn't have issues with their fish is the one who over-winters them in a large pond in their 20C basement. This person also tried to keep a couple of them year round in a 55 gallon on the main floor of the home where the temperature can rise to 28C. With doing massive weekly water changes the fish still got all these bacterial problems. She put the fish back in the basement and the problem went away.

Now I know that many variables can come into play here which is why I would consider thinking differently about it should I see proof of someone's goldfish living for many years in a warm tank. I would like to point out that goldfish will still breed even if they have bacterial issues. I have seen it first hand.

I'm fine with it if the fish don't get sick regularly and they live to be old and they are not crammed into a tank that is too small for them.

As far as putting "tropical" fish with them, I guess if the temp is suitable and everyone gets along than I see nothing wrong with it. The one thing I don't like is when people say, "oh my fish are just fine in this scenario". Talk to me in 10 years and if your fish are still fine, then hats off to you and I will completely retract my statement.

 

[fishguy2727]

I am not sure why bacterial issues are so much of a concern. In poor conditions any pathogen is more likely, not just bacterial.

Inadequate water changes is a completely separate issue than temperature. I think the problems you are seeing/citing have everything to do with water changes and nothing to do with temp.

 

[Caprichoso]

I am not sure why bacterial issues are so much of a concern. In poor conditions any pathogen is more likely, not just bacterial.

Inadequate water changes is a completely separate issue than temperature. I think the problems you are seeing/citing have everything to do with water changes and nothing to do with temp.

I definitely agree with part of that statement but the person I know did weekly 50% in the warm tank and hardly does water changes at all in the basement pond. The health issues came with the warmer water, not with the cooler water. It's not like the fish were on death's door or anything but I do see bacterial issues as a concern because it means the fish isn't thriving imo.

 

[fishguy2727]

But a small tank versus a big pond will also have a massive effect on water quality and therefore their health.

 

[Caprichoso]

But a small tank versus a big pond will also have a massive effect on water quality and therefore their health.

Agreed. But I still want to see all the success stories about people's goldfish living to be a decade+ old in warm temperature with no ill effects. Trust me, I want to believe, lol

 

[fishguy2727]

The fact that they thrive in the tropics around the world shows that it is not the temp that is an issue. If it was temp along then all those goldfish in ponds south of the Carolinas would die every summer when their water is in the mid 80s in the shade. It is other aspects of care that aquarists fall short on, not by keeping them warm. These are not the coldwater fish that books and people keep regurgitating them as being.

 

[Caprichoso]

The fact that they thrive in the tropics around the world shows that it is not the temp that is an issue. If it was temp along then all those goldfish in ponds south of the Carolinas would die every summer when their water is in the mid 80s in the shade. It is other aspects of care that aquarists fall short on, not by keeping them warm. These are not the coldwater fish that books and people keep regurgitating them as being.

Yes, but there's a difference between the fish being in warm water for part of the year and having them in a consistently warm fish tank. The temperature fluctuations would provide the fish with cooler water some of the time. In a tank, a fish cannot escape to cooler waters, it simply has to tolerate whatever happens to it. Outdoor ponds are cooler at the bottom but I doubt that a fish tank can compare to that. Thanks for the debate, I'm enjoying it! I must be mad going up against a biologist

 

[fishguy2727]

Large river systems may have cooler areas, but they are still tropical through and through. These are the same waters all of our tropical fish are from and the goldfish are thriving.

Small and shallow ponds do not offer the temp refuge you refer to. They will heat up completely, a lot, and fast in the hot Southern sun. Even in shallow ponds goldfish do fine (provided they are well aerated/planted).

 

[Caprichoso]

Large river systems may have cooler areas, but they are still tropical through and through. These are the same waters all of our tropical fish are from and the goldfish are thriving.

Small and shallow ponds do not offer the temp refuge you refer to. They will heat up completely, a lot, and fast in the hot Southern sun. Even in shallow ponds goldfish do fine (provided they are well aerated/planted).

Ok, that makes sense. Just curious though about what species of goldfish they are? Are they all the types you can buy in the store?