getting the size, and colors back, of the wild fish...

[Magnum Man]

so it's pretty well known, that most live bearers available to us for aquarium use, are not wild caught, and most are not pure strains...
I'm looking for "giant Molly's" ( Poecilia velifera )
and finding wild fish has proven difficult... F-1's would be fine...most good sources say 5 inches or more, for un crossed velifera, yet the mixed breed Sailfins typically, of velifera designation, being sold are listed as 2.5 - 3 inches... there are some articles on "giant Molly's" but either no one has been interested, or breeding them back for the original size, has not been fruitful...

so any suggestions for breeding back, towards wild coloration and size...

one thing, I suspect larger tanks were not used, and in the old days it was always rumored that the size of the aquarium would effect the size the fish can grow... so I'm starting with a 45, and 60 gallon tank for this attempt...

 

[GaryE]

Once the fish has been hybridized and is no longer a species, why try? It would never be velifera, no matter how much you worked at it.

I'd contact Goliad Farms or Adrian Hernandez, and simply start with good stock. Once it warms up, that should be easy.

 

[Aquaria Pro Aquatics]

so it's pretty well known, that most live bearers available to us for aquarium use, are not wild caught, and most are not pure strains...
I'm looking for "giant Molly's" ( Poecilia velifera )
and finding wild fish has proven difficult... most good sources say 5 inches or more, for wilds, yet the bred Sailfins typically, of velifera designation, being sold are listed as 2.5 - 3 inches... there are some articles on "giant Molly's" but either no one has been interested, or breeding them back for the original size, has not been fruitful...

so any suggestions for breeding back, towards wild coloration and size...

one thing, I suspect larger tanks were not used, and in the old days it was always rumored that the size of the aquarium would effect the size the fish can grow... so I'm starting with a 45, and 60 gallon tank for this attempt...

I have had the same issue with lots of species. Not just with livebearers either, or size, but lots of issues. Especially neons funny enough. At some point I just find the best breed stock I can.

Dominick
Aquaria Pro Aquatics

 

[emeraldking]

Well, bringing back the original size by using breedings forms is very hard to do. Not impossble, though... For I've seen giant sailfins white colored. But they were descendants of wild specimens in a zoo I've visited. When they couldn't find fresh blood to the population, they added some breeding forms. The first offspring had a few whites besides the wild coloration. But I also have to add that they were kept in a very large bassin.
But going back to the original size is hard because they are so mixed already that the original genes are so suppressed by all the other genes, that it's almost unlikely.

 

[Magnum Man]

I have contacted Goliad Farms and Adrian Hernandez, not heard back from either yet... I have 5 assorted, extra large Poecilia velifera coming today... unfortunately we are in a polar vortex, so we're colder than normal, fingers crossed... any potential mates will go into the main breeding tank, any odd colors, or small fish will go into the currently empty dump tank for observation... if some breed in that tank, it'll give me more options for the main breeding tank, as they grow up... unless I get a jump start from another source, I expect this could take years to get a few like I'm looking for, and even then, when those breed, I'm sure all or most all will be throw backs to their mixed heritage... maybe a few pictures of what I get to start with soon... another hard, well water, water change to do this morning before they arrive...

Goliad Farms doesn't list them for sale right now, but I sent them a message from their artical on them, and Adrian Hernandez, I left a message on their Face Book page as a comment on his last post about these Molly's, which was posted over a year ago, so I'm not counting on physical help there, but any advice from either will be appreciated, thanks for the recommendations and I'll pass along, any advice I receive

 

[Magnum Man]

I hate it when this happens, especially this time of year... this is UPS over night delivery...

 

[GaryE]

You have more faith in delivery/courrier companies than I do. I never order if the nights have reached freezing. I won't order fish online until April. I hope you get lucky, but it's a serious risk.

The 2 sources you contacted may have latipinna, which is more cold tolerant. velifera is tropical (Yucatan) while Latipinna ranges into Texas.

 

[Back in the fold]

Did you forget your lesson with the Crenuchus spilurus that you got from Hawaii last winter ? I hope this works out for you as I would like to see pictures of them .

 

[Magnum Man]

I'm right on the main delivery routes, with regional hubs 20 miles from my house... so if they get here, I get them... this was an air delay in Ill.

 

[emeraldking]

I hate it when this happens, especially this time of year... this is UPS over night delivery...

I can totally understand the concerness...
Well, last evening I got a message from an Italian customer of mine that the address in Italy I've used wasn't the right one. And I told him in the afternoon already that I gave the package already to UPS. And I told him that he gave me twice the address I've used. But fortunately, he managed to correct it by using the tracking code this morning. And those fish will still be in time at destination. I got already worried how to get it corrected once it's already in transportation. For I always tell customers abroad that I only ship on Mondays to avoid any delays. Especially, now it's getting seriously colder despite of the fact that I've packed them really good to stand the outdoor cold. Or even cold depots along the way.

 

[Magnum Man]

Charles at Goliad replied back...

"I don’t currently have P. velifera. I do know someone who has pure P. velifera he got from me long ago. If you like, I can check to see if he has any to sell.I don’t currently have P. velifera."

 

[emeraldking]

That would be Charles Clappsaddle. From time to time, he contacts me through FB. For he's always interested in how similar fish that he's keeping are doing in Europe.

 

[GaryE]

Charles at Goliad replied back...

"I don’t currently have P. velifera. I do know someone who has pure P. velifera he got from me long ago. If you like, I can check to see if he has any to sell.I don’t currently have P. velifera."

Now that is above and beyond from a fish dealer.
Charles Clapsaddle spoke at our club once, and I found him both innovative and really really pleasant. That just confirms the impression.

 

[Magnum Man]

so...

Assorted Sailfin Molly (Poecilia velifera)

An aquarium hobby classic, the Molly is a livebearing species found through parts of Central America but it has been bred worldwide for the aquarium hobby for decades. In that time, the wild form has been developed in to dozens of varieties and color forms, including 'Dalmatian', Black, Gold...

www.aqua-imports.com

must be going after Dan's... all fish alive , even after the shipping goof up... he individually bagged everything, including both varieties of dwarf crayfish... but he used "real" small bags, that left me enough room to blend 1/2 my tank water, into the bag, prior to the dump method, which I like to do... really happy , but i expect quite literal... sailfins were all males ( I got 5 assorted ) guessing if they were females someone might complain about no "sail"???

3 green, went into the main breeding tank, and 2 dalmatians went into the 65 gallon community ( dump ) tank

 

[Magnum Man]

I found this article interesting... sounds as if the males are short lived, and explains that may be why a female can store sperm... it's not specific on which branch of the family tree they are talking about... but it appears to be specifically about Poecilia latipinna, which the velifera, are often crossed with...

Sailfin Molly

Poecilia latipinna These small, oblong fish are generally gray with rows of spots that almost blend to look like stripes. Males have an enlarged dorsal fin, but otherwise they have small fins in general, including a truncated caudal (tail) fin. Their upturned faces help them draw from the upper l

www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu