German Blue Ram Compatibility

[mark4785]

The text in quotations below is from my 'Stocking Ideas' thread. I'd greatly appreciate it if someone with knowledge of Dwarf Cichilids can point me in the right direction with regards to compatibility of keeping different species of 'rams' together. Thanks.

Well I still stand by my original opinion a few weeks back, that being, I'd definitely like to invest in some 'german blue rams'. Since my last post I have found out that my aquarium only holds 120 litres of water, NOT 150 litres. A book I recently bought suggested an aquarium with a width of 60cm-80cm would house "3-4 males and 3-4 females" (quoted from 'Guide to Fish Keeping' by Dr Chris Andrews).

I do not really want 7-8 of the same species fish, so if they are compatible, I may invest in 'bolivian rams' alongside the 'blue rams' purely because they are sand sifters that resemble the 'blue cheeked goby' (a fish I'm fascinated by lol).

The book I have states that 'German blue rams' need the following conditions:
PH 6.5 - 7.0
GH level of 3-4 dH.
Temperature: 25 degrees C.

My tap water conditions are:
GH: 9dH I believe.
PH: 7.5.

A part from bog wood, are there any more things (including artificial products) that will create the conditions needed to keep blue rams? I need to be able to achieve the right conditions as I'd like to be able to start breeding them also. Would this product be any good for instance?

Do the bolivian rams accept such water conditions?

Thanks,

Mark.

 

[jacko32]

PH 6.5 - 7.0
GH level of 3-4 dH.
Temperature: 25 degrees C. this temp is too low i keep mine no lower than 27c you will get people on here telling you they need to be kept at 30c but this is only needed for wild caught most of the fish available to us are tank bred and will exept a wider range of temp

i keep my blue rams with bolivian rams and black widdow and serpia tetras at 27c pH6.5

 

[mark4785]

PH 6.5 - 7.0
GH level of 3-4 dH.
Temperature: 25 degrees C. this temp is too low i keep mine no lower than 27c you will get people on here telling you they need to be kept at 30c but this is only needed for wild caught most of the fish available to us are tank bred and will exept a wider range of temp

i keep my blue rams with bolivian rams and black widdow and serpia tetras at 27c pH6.5

Thanks a lot, just the confirmation I needed .

What about products for changing the PH? My tap water PH is slightly alkaline which means I need to go about lowering it slightly in order to keep the Rams.

 

[jacko32]

they will be fine upto pH7.5 if you want to try lower it a bit you can use bogwood or peat pellets in your filter

 

[mark4785]

they will be fine upto pH7.5 if you want to try lower it a bit you can use bogwood or peat pellets in your filter

You can't use peat and activated carbon simulatenously right? Do Eheim aquariums contain activated carbon? I know what it looks like in my Blagdon filtration pump but I haven't got to grips with what is in my aquarium filter yet.

 

[jacko32]

you dont need the carbon in your filter all the time i just put it in after a course of meds just to remove the meds otherwise your just renewing it every month

 

[JoshuaA]

My girlfriend had a GBR, however it died after 3 weeks. It was fine the morning she saw it acting the same as usual she even text me to say how lovely it was looking that day then when she got back in from work 6 hours later it had died. Its colour was absolutely beautiful after being in the tank for a few days and really came out.

The water stats at the time were
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
<10 Nitrate
pH 7.4
Temperature 27C
40% water changes every 5 days, heavily planted tank so low nitrates.

The pH was not perfect for it but they can adapt rather easily, considering the store's water is from the same reservoir supply and they confirmed their water stat's are exactly the same we shouldn't of had a problem.

We went back to the LFS we bought it from to get an idea of what it might be, we both agreed there was no visibly disease or infection the fish had actually been feeding the same amount as normal in the morning so there was nothing unusual about it.

However the actual owner of the store said to me once the GBRs mature there is really no way of telling the age and he prefers to buy matured GBRs than smaller fry to sell. His experiences show that matured GBRs have a lower mortality rating. He then claimed our fish may of died of old age .

My advice would be to be cautious when buying them, they are beautiful fish but can be heartbreakers if they die unexpectedly.

 

[RadaR]

First off, you need a decent supplier. GBRs from Holland, Germany or Czech Republic are the best. Dont touch anything from the Far East, they are poor specimens.
After that it's just a case of keeping the water clean with frequent water changes. I find soft water is a must with these fish however a reliable aquarist has had success when using hard water.

 

[mark4785]

First off, you need a decent supplier. GBRs from Holland, Germany or Czech Republic are the best. Dont touch anything from the Far East, they are poor specimens.
After that it's just a case of keeping the water clean with frequent water changes. I find soft water is a must with these fish however a reliable aquarist has had success when using hard water.

I've never worked with soft water before. I'm quite anxious that I won't be able to control the PH swings associated with soft water. Is it therefore essential that there is something like bog wood in the water which will keep the water at a constant acidic level which never changes? I personally will use peat substance in the filter system instead.

My tap water is 7.5, so when conducting a water change, will I have to add it gradually to the aquarium to avoid increasing the aquarium PH? I know some have said the GBR will tolerate a PH of 7.5 but I want to stick to either neutral or acidic water.

What about the hardness of my water? It is not within the acceptable range required to keep Rams so I really need a useful and reliable method of making the water more soft..

Mark.

 

[RadaR]

Well hardness and pH are different all together.
With low GH, generally comes low KH. If there is low KH then the buffering capacity isn't as large, therefore doesn't regulate the pH as strongly or as stable.
Hence, adding bogwood to a tank with high hardness wont do much in the sense of changing the pH. I really wouldn't try changing the pH. As you said yourself, 7.5 is fine for Rams. Feel free to "cut" your tap water with RO water though. E.g. every 6litres of tapwater, add 4litres of RO as well.
There is some evidence that shows pH swings not to be too problematic. The reasons for the pH to swing is what is dangerous.

 

[mark4785]

Well hardness and pH are different all together.
With low GH, generally comes low KH. If there is low KH then the buffering capacity isn't as large, therefore doesn't regulate the pH as strongly or as stable.
Hence, adding bogwood to a tank with high hardness wont do much in the sense of changing the pH. I really wouldn't try changing the pH. As you said yourself, 7.5 is fine for Rams. Feel free to "cut" your tap water with RO water though. E.g. every 6litres of tapwater, add 4litres of RO as well.
There is some evidence that shows pH swings not to be too problematic. The reasons for the pH to swing is what is dangerous.

Ok, by RO water, what exactly do you mean? Where would I source this?

 

[JoshuaA]

Well hardness and pH are different all together.
With low GH, generally comes low KH. If there is low KH then the buffering capacity isn't as large, therefore doesn't regulate the pH as strongly or as stable.
Hence, adding bogwood to a tank with high hardness wont do much in the sense of changing the pH. I really wouldn't try changing the pH. As you said yourself, 7.5 is fine for Rams. Feel free to "cut" your tap water with RO water though. E.g. every 6litres of tapwater, add 4litres of RO as well.
There is some evidence that shows pH swings not to be too problematic. The reasons for the pH to swing is what is dangerous.

Ok, by RO water, what exactly do you mean? Where would I source this?

Some LFS will sell it, however I would ask them to do a Nitrate/Gh/Kh test infront of you on it. I've heard of a few cases where the stores sell it and once they've got home their RO water has had more Nitrate than their tap water.

I believe its usually sold by the Gallon, not such a steep price but if you're filling a massive tank it is. Could be better off buying a system yourself if you're adamant on making your water softer.

 

[PDSimon]

Reverse osmosis water, you can get it from LFSs normally as buying RO machines can be pricey.

I think you can also collect rainwater and use that too. I've always thought that rainwater would have very low buffering capacity? So you need to be careful using it because any crash could kill your fish, especially with GBRs.

My tap water is 7.5 pH but my tank water is 6.6. My GH is 6 and my KH is 3. throughout my fishless cycle my pH dropped but when I started my tank properly with fish, the bogwood slowly brought the pH down to a suitable pH for the bolivian rams I have. my stocking is currently light so whether more nitrates could cause the pH to crash I don't know...

GBRs are very sensitive fish and I would recommend bolivian rams if possible as they are a bit more hardy.

 

[RadaR]

my stocking is currently light so whether more nitrates could cause the pH to crash I don't know...

Simply no

 

[mark4785]

My tap water is 7.5 pH but my tank water is 6.6. My GH is 6 and my KH is 3. throughout my fishless cycle my pH dropped but when I started my tank properly with fish, the bogwood slowly brought the pH down to a suitable pH for the bolivian rams I have.

Hi PDSimon,

So your bog wood has stabilized your water? Thats the burning question I need an answer to; do PH buffers such as bog wood keep the PH level constant whether the KH is very low or very high?

KH is the buffering capacity right? Well, instead of messing around with this parameter I was hoping I could get a natural/artifical product which will have the same effect as a high KH level, that being to strongly buffer the PH through what it leeches into the water.