Geophagus Surinamensis?

[dave_oddballs]

hi i have 4 big (7-8") geophagus surinamensis, but after being told the 'true' surinamensis are fairly difficult to source, and not many about, i am wondering if these are really surinamensis or something else?
any help would be much appreciated!

cheers for any help, Dave

 

[jacko32]

i would say they look like the real thing to me
acctually they could be cf altifrons

 

[minxfishy]

They look the same as my group of 4 roughly 6" sold as G.Surinamensis here:

Although, yours seem to have a larger black spot on the side than mine.

As to whether they are 'true' Suri's, hard to tell, so many of the species have been interbred and look very similar.

 

[dave_oddballs]

yeah, they are what i always thought were surinamensis, but after being told next to no surinamensis have left surinam for quite some time, i had doubts. i like them either way, i got them because i liked the look of them not the name of them, im just like most others and like to know exactly what i have in my tanks!
the other person said to me that most that come in as surinamensis are in fact altifron sp.
minxy they are a good 8", without tails, i'm unsure whether this would affect the size of the black spot or not?
also my ones seem to have much thicker and much more defined red lines in the tail and anal fin than those in your picture, which makes me think they may be different species but which one is which species beats me!!

 

[minxfishy]

Apparently the spot size is one of the identifying parts of them, smaller than the eye = one species, same as the eye size = another, larger = another, some on an so forth, however, I cant find a really accurate site with clear defined pictures to help. Frustrating. Your right in that yours do seem to have a more defined path way around their tails in the red, where mind dont, whether that means they are different species or growth patterning Ive no idea

 

[dave_oddballs]

well i'm clueless! hopefully someone might come along who knows the differences!
even if you google surinamensis slightly different ones come up so thats no good really!
will just have to wait and hope i guess!
cheers! Dave

 

[jacko32]

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[dave_oddballs]

well im still non the wiser! from that chart id say mine look most like sp. goldstein but thats just from a black and white picture, would need to see colour images!

 

[Glenbo1981]

Wonder why they didnt put Tapajos on that chart, considering they are in the same complex, and a lot of females look very similar to small Suris

 

[dave_oddballs]

that chart isn't accurate at all so i wouldn't take much notice of it, i will find out exactly what they are sooner or later i would have thought!!

 

[star4]

Whichever they are they certainly are gorgous.

 

[dave_oddballs]

fish base shows g.surinamensis having a striped tail;
http/www.fishbase.org/photos/thumbnailssummary.php?ID=4781
and altifrons with spotted tail;
http/www.fishbase.org/photos/thumbnailssummary.php?ID=57713
i think we are getting closer with abalios;
http/www.fishbase.org/photos/thumbnailssummary.php?ID=62061

 

[snowflake311]

Your right Dave to think your fish is differant then what it was sold as. The name Surinamensis Has become a general term used to describe Geos at fish stores when they are unsure of what it really is. Remember the geo family has not been completely documented.

My guess is altifron variant.

Some info I gathered up.

True Geophagus surinamensis are basically phantoms in the hobby because of the lack of exports out of Suriname. The reason everything is labelled surinamensis is because at the time of their description and until 1989, the species was widespread in SA. It has since been restricted greatly (by Kullander in 1989) to only those three rivers and the other fishes have been described as different species, abalios, dicrozoster, winemilleri for example.

I got that info from mfk.

 

[Davo86]

Do you ever see any vertical bars on them? seven to be precise, when the bands become dark see if the 4th and 5th band join at the base, if so they are Geophagus dicrozoster, if not then they are Geophagus abalios

My lone Geophagus abalios

 

[dave_oddballs]

they do have dark vertical bars, normally when lights out or one chases the other, i don't know what you meen by join at the base?
you meen the 4th and 5th bars join the bars on the opposite side of the fish at the base or the 4th bar joins the 5th bar at the base?

will have to have a good look when i get back home!
they do look extremely similar to the one in your picture though.