Genetics/Failure to Thrive?

azvictoria

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Hi All,
I have a recent new shoal of angels in a 60 gallon tank. All are similar in size, got them all within 2 days of each other (two I had to drive an hour away for (green BSPs), so couldn't get them all at the exact time. One doesn't seem to be growing much, has never eaten much and now isn't eating at all. It's a leopard blue spotted angel (overbred?). Others are all thriving. I work at home a lot and my tank is set up where I can view the tank all the time, they're being angelfish territorial, but not over the top at all and none are picking on this one - seems like they 'get it'. Parameters are:
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0-5
Chlorine 0
PH 7
I just wonder if this is a failure to thrive situation? I hate to put the little stunted thing into a hospital tank and stress it. There's no apparent sign of disease or injury, I do water changes weekly - it just wanders about like a little zombie. I'm not hesitant about euthanizing it if that's the best course, but want to also give it a chance.
 
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NannaLou

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Hi All,
I have a recent new shoal of angels in a 60 gallon tank. All are similar in size, got them all within 2 days of each other (two I had to drive an hour away for (green BSPs), so couldn't get them all at the exact time. One doesn't seem to be growing much, has never eaten much and now isn't eating at all. It's a leopard blue spotted angel (overbred?). Others are all thriving. I work at home a lot and my tank is set up where I can view the tank all the time, they're being angelfish territorial, but not over the top at all and none are picking on this one - seems like they 'get it'. Parameters are:
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0-5
Chlorine 0
PH 7
I just wonder if this is a failure to thrive situation? I hate to put the little stunted thing into a hospital tank and stress it. There's no apparent sign of disease or injury, I do water changes weekly - it just wanders about like a little zombie. I'm not hesitant about euthanizing it if that's the best course, but want to also give it a chance.
You don’t mention your Ammonia reading? I’m still very new but know this is an important measure and seems to be the cause of many evils.
 
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azvictoria

azvictoria

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You don’t mention your Ammonia reading? I’m still very new but know this is an important measure and seems to be the cause of many evils.
It's zero, and the little one is still the size of a US quarter. Very small, others are growing.
 

Byron

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I would leave things as they are, since they generally appear to be working well. Some fish do not grow as large, just like some people.

These fish have been commercially produced for decades now, and we know from other species the genetic development issues this can cause, but aside from acquiring wild caught fish there is not much we can do about it. Reliable specific breeders are sometimes worth tracking down, as aquarists often do with discus for example.

Provided there is no evidence of harassment or serious bullying, the "runt" may live just as normal a life as the others.
 

Sgooosh

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I would leave things as they are, since they generally appear to be working well. Some fish do not grow as large, just like some people.

These fish have been commercially produced for decades now, and we know from other species the genetic development issues this can cause, but aside from acquiring wild caught fish there is not much we can do about it. Reliable specific breeders are sometimes worth tracking down, as aquarists often do with discus for example.

Provided there is no evidence of harassment or serious bullying, the "runt" may live just as normal a life as the others.
i put a generation of guppies througha lot of stress, and one orphan guppy is still small...
 
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azvictoria

azvictoria

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I would leave things as they are, since they generally appear to be working well. Some fish do not grow as large, just like some people.

These fish have been commercially produced for decades now, and we know from other species the genetic development issues this can cause, but aside from acquiring wild caught fish there is not much we can do about it. Reliable specific breeders are sometimes worth tracking down, as aquarists often do with discus for example.

Provided there is no evidence of harassment or serious bullying, the "runt" may live just as normal a life as the others.
Thank you! But it's just not eating, that's my concern. Although I have seen very nocturnal behavior from angels - hopefully grazing when lights are out. It looks at food like it's supposed to know what to do, but doesn't do it. I have been in a training conference over zoom for the last several days, and my desk looks straight at my tank. I do watch hours a day. The others aren't picking on it at all. It swims upright, no red, no bloating, nothing. Water is good and others are outgrowing it by leaps and bounds. It is a runt. I did think about putting into a hospital/isolation tank, but I doubt it would work out. More stress, and I can't bring it back into the shoal of now bigger ones. This fish and the other I bought are from a LFS I've used for years and are highly regarded in the area and bred the last angels I had for 6+ years. When I rehomed my last really nasty Philippine Blue, that's where he went - back to his breeder. This is a new variety to them, though...
 

AbbeysDad

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Large scale breeding can produce some of the best...and some of the worst fish sometimes the result of overcrowding and inbreeding. And at times, in all species, there are runts of the litter so the speak. There can also be deformities and freaks of nature.
I breed swordtails and often there are early maturing males that never get very large so I try not to let these breed.
As @Byron points out, as long as there is not excessive aggression from other angels perhaps he's fine where he is. If he's not eating because he's intimidated by the larger fish, perhaps rehoming him to live out his life peacefully is a better answer. :)
 

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