Gasping Monos

[justinp]

My three Monos and Archer fish have been gasping for two days now...They are acting normal otherwise (not gasping at the surface) and the water conditions are very good. Ammonia-0,Nitrite-0,Nitrate-5, PH 7.5, Sg. 1.016
Does anyone have any ideas??? I am confused.

Thanks

 

[AMS]

Can you describe the gasping a bit more? Have they done this before? Is there anything else out of the "norm" such as discoloration, eating, and activity level.

My immediate thought is that there is a lack of oxygen, but without more information I cant be positive.

 

[justinp]

Can you describe the gasping a bit more? Have they done this before? Is there anything else out of the "norm" such as discoloration, eating, and activity level.

My immediate thought is that there is a lack of oxygen, but without more information I cant be positive.

Hey

The gasping is just a rapid gill and mouth movement...never done it before. No discoloration, or anything else out of the norm...I havent fed them much since this began as I feared it would be ammonia. Now they are beginning to eat algae off of the rocks...so they have an appetitie.

 

[AMS]

Hmmmm, it could be a number of things causing this. If I were you I would create lots of surface agitation and then see if the flaring stops. Try using a powerhead for the surface agitation, they work well.

 

[nmonks]

Agreed, this sounds like an oxygen issue, but it could be a couple of other things, too.

While a pH of 7.5 isn't harmful, it should be around 8.0 for this species. Moreover, has the pH suddenly dropped?

What's the temperature? Lowering the temperature, as a stop-gap measure at least, increases the amoung of oxygen and reduces the metabolism of the fish. There's a limit to how low you can go, but dropping to 20 C or even 18 C won't do any harm in the short term. Don't suddenly change the temperature, just set the heater down a notch, so that the tank cools by itself.

How big is the aquarium?

Have you added anything new to the tank? Poisoning will cause exactly what you describe. I've done this, by taking wood from the garden I thought was clean, only to discover, within minutes, that it had been sprayed with insecticide. A water change and filtration with carbon will remedy this, assuming the fish aren't too far gone.

Cheers,

Neale

My immediate thought is that there is a lack of oxygen, but without more information I cant be positive.

 

[justinp]

Agreed, this sounds like an oxygen issue, but it could be a couple of other things, too.

While a pH of 7.5 isn't harmful, it should be around 8.0 for this species. Moreover, has the pH suddenly dropped?

What's the temperature? Lowering the temperature, as a stop-gap measure at least, increases the amoung of oxygen and reduces the metabolism of the fish. There's a limit to how low you can go, but dropping to 20 C or even 18 C won't do any harm in the short term. Don't suddenly change the temperature, just set the heater down a notch, so that the tank cools by itself.

How big is the aquarium?

Have you added anything new to the tank? Poisoning will cause exactly what you describe. I've done this, by taking wood from the garden I thought was clean, only to discover, within minutes, that it had been sprayed with insecticide. A water change and filtration with carbon will remedy this, assuming the fish aren't too far gone.

Cheers,

Neale

My immediate thought is that there is a lack of oxygen, but without more information I cant be positive.

The Ph has dropped from 8 to 7.5 in a matter of a few days...I dont know why though. There has not been anything added to the tank recently. The temp is around 20, I already dropped it. And actually the Archer is not gasping at all now and the monos only slightly...So Im really confused...

 

[nmonks]

The plot thinnens...

I think the pH is the problem. Various things could cause this, but I'd first check there's nothing decaying in the tank. Then, I'd see if the calcium buffer needs cleaning/replacing. Remember: coral sand as a substrate is a strictly time-limited buffering system. Once it's covered in algae and bacteria, it's no longer buffering anything. Finally, excess CO2 can drop the pH, either through overstocking or inadquate aeration.

The fish will adapt to pH 7.5, but if it gets any lower, then they will be unhappy monos. Archers can be kept in freshwater for very long periods (perhaps indefinitely) so they will be much less concerned.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[AMS]

Then, I'd see if the calcium buffer needs cleaning/replacing. Remember: coral sand as a substrate is a strictly time-limited buffering system. Once it's covered in algae and bacteria, it's no longer buffering anything.

Exactly, good point Neale. Many hobbyists (brackish and saltwater in particular) dont realize the importance of buffers, particularly aragonite substrates. As Neale points out when the aragonite substrate is covered in algae (As it is in so many brackish aquariums) it looses it buffering capacity. Stability in pH becomes difficult to achieve, thus becoming problematic as it has in brackman's case. It may be a pain to clear to aragonite substrate of algae (Unlike the "reefers" with their fancy clean up crews ) but it is important to avoid swings. Even with buffering abilities of the salt, tapwater, and aragonite buffers, it is still possible to have slight swings (Or even large swings). So unless you can keep your aragonite substarte clear of algae, it is worth adding an additional buffer such as coral chips to the filter.

 

[nmonks]

AMS -- What about using kalkwasser? I've never used it myself (didn't exist when I kept monos -- we made to with "Calcite Plus" in the filter). But I wonder if you went to the local marine shop, and asked for some buffering agent for marines, whether that would work. Perhaps at 1/3 or 1/2 dosage. Can't see how it would do some harm.

There is some fairly good evidence that marine fish need the pH/hardness of seawater more than the salinity. Provided you keep these two things high, most marine fish do really well at SG 1.0108, which is "technically" brackish, given marine water is around 1.023 or so. Also, the people who have kept monos in freshwater all their lives have done so in hard, alkaline water. I suspect a lot of aquarists concentrate on the salinity, and forget about the pH/hardness. It's the same mistake as worrying about nitrite, but ignoring nitrate.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[AMS]

AMS -- What about using kalkwasser? I've never used it myself (didn't exist when I kept monos -- we made to with "Calcite Plus" in the filter). But I wonder if you went to the local marine shop, and asked for some buffering agent for marines, whether that would work. Perhaps at 1/3 or 1/2 dosage. Can't see how it would do some harm.

Having no experience with Kalkwasser I dont know ho well it would do in brackish or freshwater aqauriums. I assume not well. Kalkwasser is mixed with RO top-off water in reefs to replenish calcium levels used up by corals and macro-algaes. In brackish aquaria, the calcium is not used by anything so the levels will not drop without regular water changes of tap water. I would guess the hardness would be too much. Algae would go crazy as well I assume.

Having no experience with Kalkwasser I cant be ceratin of my assumptions. Maybe asking in the Saltwater section would prove more accurate.