Fresh Of Salt?

survivor

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Morning everyone. My name is Jason and I think this is a great website for all fish enthusiasts. Well done.

I have been looking at this forum from the outside for a few months and decided to get in the fishy action. I don't have a tank set up yet but I'm purchasing the parts one-by-one. I have a 33 gal tank and have decided to go with a canopy lighting system. I'm putting the fish tank into my wall and this works best for me. I know I still need to pick up a proper filter, sand, plants and a heater.

From what I've seen on here, maintaining a salt water fish tank is very difficult versus the freshwater one. For those of you that have experienced both, is this true?

I want to have saltwater fish. I'm leaning towards clown fish which leads into these questions:

a) How many can I have in a 33 gal tank?

b) What other fish thrive well with clown fish?

c) Same sex of different?

d) Coral - what should I get for the tank?

e) Do I need anemone for them?

f) How long do I need to prep the tank before I can put the fish in them and

g) Replenishing the tank as water evaporates?

Thanks guys. I know these are likely a lot of newbie questions that may eek a few vets here. I'm just really excited about this and want to do the right thing the first time around.

Thanks,

Jason B-)
 
I'm looking into these guys for a friend, so will be interested in the reply's. but:

your tank should be, just, ok for two.

they do not need kept with their symbiotic partner, these are apparently hard to keep!
 
freshwater is best saltwater is crap and you save more money and you can hardly get any fish for a 30 litre tank you atleast need 50litre+ but you can have some baby clown fish
 
freshwater is best saltwater is crap and you save more money and you can hardly get any fish for a 30 litre tank you atleast need 50litre+ but you can have some baby clown fish

Well, that's your opinion. First up, he said 33 GALLON not 33 LITRE. Next, baby clown fish will grow into adult clown fish. By your reckoning he would be ok with babies in a 33 litre tank. What does he do when they grow?

Saltwater is crap? How old are you?

Marine is awesome, just like freshwater. From what I have read on these very forums (welcome by the way!) the actual set up costs are much higher. Depending on the type of tank you want to maintain you may need live rock at about £12 Sterling per kilo, a skimmer, all the other bits and pieces, test kits and much more. The guy at my LFS defined marine fishkeeping as a full-time hobby with regular work to do daily, weekly, monthly and annually as well as the emergencies. It's no more difficult that fresh but there's lots more to consider and worry about.

If you are a beginner then (like me!) then I would go (like me!) fresh. I most certainly want to go marine at some point, but there's plenty of time for that. There are beautiful fresh water fish out there too.

I believe one of the things you will need to consider whether fresh or marine is the actual dimensions of the tank. Some fish prefer tall and some prefer long tanks. Do you know the dimensions of your tank?

Good luck and don't forget to cycle the tank before adding the fish!

Collin
 
freshwater is best saltwater is crap and you save more money and you can hardly get any fish for a 30 litre tank you atleast need 50litre+ but you can have some baby clown fish

lol, not really helping the OP are we? :hyper: reading could do with some brushing up too :crazy:
 
freshwater is best saltwater is crap and you save more money and you can hardly get any fish for a 30 litre tank you atleast need 50litre+ but you can have some baby clown fish

Well, that's your opinion. First up, he said 33 GALLON not 33 LITRE. Next, baby clown fish will grow into adult clown fish. By your reckoning he would be ok with babies in a 33 litre tank. What does he do when they grow?

Saltwater is crap? How old are you?

Marine is awesome, just like freshwater. From what I have read on these very forums (welcome by the way!) the actual set up costs are much higher. Depending on the type of tank you want to maintain you may need live rock at about £12 Sterling per kilo, a skimmer, all the other bits and pieces, test kits and much more. The guy at my LFS defined marine fishkeeping as a full-time hobby with regular work to do daily, weekly, monthly and annually as well as the emergencies. It's no more difficult that fresh but there's lots more to consider and worry about.

If you are a beginner then (like me!) then I would go (like me!) fresh. I most certainly want to go marine at some point, but there's plenty of time for that. There are beautiful fresh water fish out there too.

I believe one of the things you will need to consider whether fresh or marine is the actual dimensions of the tank. Some fish prefer tall and some prefer long tanks. Do you know the dimensions of your tank?

Good luck and don't forget to cycle the tank before adding the fish!

Collin

Thanks for the welcome - tank dimensions are 18H x 12W and 36L. How long should I cycle the tank before I put fish in the tank? Or, is the tank ready once the levels have leveled out? If I'm planning on adding plants and rocks, should this be included in the cycle of the tank?

Thanks,

Jason
 
Hi Jason

This thread

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

Will give you most of the information you need to start a fishless cycle. Essentially, whether you choose fresh or salt for your tank it is essential that you cycle the tank.

What this will do is create a culture of ammonia and Nitrite munching bacteria (also known as ABacs and NBacs) in your water column and filter media to be able to process the ammonia waste produced by the messy little fishies.

It's easy to start the cycle, and very hard to be patient with it while the bacteria colonies build up. There are loads of useful threads on the first page of this forum that will give even more information on cycling. The best piece of advice I have been given (I am still doing my fishless cycle - log in this thread) is to keep an accurate record of the tests you do in your tank. You can see my test record at the link in my signature.

Do you have a test kit for testing things like Ph, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels? This is the single most important piece of kit you will purchase (after the tank of course which you already have). If you have a problem with anything in your tank the first thing you will be asked on most forums is what your water stats are. They mean the results of the regular tests from your test kit. I use an API Master Liquid Test Kit (about £25-£30 Sterling).

Plants and rocks will be fine during the cycle and (as I have found out) the plants might even get hungry and munch through the Nitrates bringing the levels down.

Which country are you in by the way?

Have a read of the forum stickies, some of the other threads and please please don't be afraid to ask silly questions!

I am sure that others will be along soon with much more experience and will be able to guide you better than I.

Collin
 
Thanks for the welcome - tank dimensions are 18H x 12W and 36L. How long should I cycle the tank before I put fish in the tank? Or, is the tank ready once the levels have leveled out? If I'm planning on adding plants and rocks, should this be included in the cycle of the tank?

Thanks,

Jason

The test results will tell you when you can add fish. Once you can raise ammonia to 4-5 ppm and have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite after 12 hours, the tank's ready for fish.

You can add plants and decoration during the cycle - the time makes a good opportunity to play with your aquascaping, and plants will love the cycle, as they use ammonia. They'll probably grow better during the cycle than you'll ever see again, and since they use ammonia, they'll also effectively speed the cycle.
 
I just posted this in another thread about clownfish

Generally speaking, you will not be able to keep more than 2 clowns in any tank.

Clownfish all start out as unsexed juveniles. The most dominant one will turn into a female, and the next will become a male. A male can later become a female, but they can not go back down the chain (undiff -> male -> female and it only goes that way). Apparently, the male stage can be skipped as well (with a direct undiff -> female). All others stay undifferentiated. Eventually, the undifferentiated ones want to spread their genes. In order to do so, the present male or female needs to be driven off (or the undiff one needs to find a new home, which it can't in a tank). This leads to constant fighting and typically death of all but 2 clowns.

They can be peaceful for some time, but eventually this seems to happen to all clownfish keepers.

When you do get 2 clownfish, get the smallest ones you can find. The larger ones, especially those kept alone will likely be female and you won't be able to combine two females. The small juveniles are almost guaranteed to be undifferentiated and will sort it out relatively peacefully on their own.

Saltwater tanks are not too much more difficult than freshwater if you only want fish in the tank. The only difference there is mixing salt for water changes and maintaining the salinity of the water. Setup costs are a little higher as you'll probably want some live rock which helps maintain water quality and looks good IMO.

They get much more complex and sensitive as you add corals and anemones (very hard). This is when the costs can go way up and the amount of work increases. Most corals and inverts are much more sensitive to water quality changes than fish are and will not tolerate any shifts.

You do not need an anemone and I suggest you do not get one. They're expensive and very hard to keep. Most clowns will host on just about anything (and don't need to do it at all). Some people have said they've had tank raised clowns host on powerheads (pumps).
 
If you are seriously considering a SW tank then go and ask in the SW section further down the board. While many people in the FW section mean well, most have somewhat little experience and knowledge of keeping SW.

I personally keep both and for most people (as noted above) the initial costs can be a bit higher but the upkeep is not that different. Live Rock can be costly and you usually aim for 1kg per 2 gallons. However, you don't need a filter with LR, but merely powerheads.

Stocking is lighter in SW and (this may not be true as I tend not to keep the smaller nicer fish) in a 33 gallon you should be ok with a pair of clowns and at least another 2 or 3 fish as well as a clean up crew of snails, hermits and shrimps.
 
Morning everyone. My name is Jason and I think this is a great website for all fish enthusiasts. Well done.

I have been looking at this forum from the outside for a few months and decided to get in the fishy action. I don't have a tank set up yet but I'm purchasing the parts one-by-one. I have a 33 gal tank and have decided to go with a canopy lighting system. I'm putting the fish tank into my wall and this works best for me. I know I still need to pick up a proper filter, sand, plants and a heater.

From what I've seen on here, maintaining a salt water fish tank is very difficult versus the freshwater one. For those of you that have experienced both, is this true?

I want to have saltwater fish. I'm leaning towards clown fish which leads into these questions:

a) How many can I have in a 33 gal tank?

b) What other fish thrive well with clown fish?

c) Same sex of different?

d) Coral - what should I get for the tank?

e) Do I need anemone for them?

f) How long do I need to prep the tank before I can put the fish in them and

g) Replenishing the tank as water evaporates?

Thanks guys. I know these are likely a lot of newbie questions that may eek a few vets here. I'm just really excited about this and want to do the right thing the first time around.

Thanks,

Jason B-)


Jason,

I have had both, and I can honestly say that marine tanks are no more difficult to look after than freshwater tanks if you plan them to make it as easy as possible for yourself. Buying quality equipment the first time round helps a lot, I gave up 25 malawi cichlid tanks for 1 marine tank and have never regretted it.

To answer your questions:
a) depends on whether you want to keep corals or not, less fish means less pollutants and less work in keeping the water "healthy"
b) there are loads of fish that do well with clowns, I have a 6 line wrasse and a tomini tang in with mine at the moment. have a look at other peolpes tanks and pick a few fish you like the look of and ask questions about them.
c) clowns all start as male, the dominant one turns female
d) easier corals include mushrooms, leathers, zoanthids.
e) clowns will do well without an anemone, mine hosted in a leather coral and have started hosting a frogspawn in my newer tank.
f) everyone is different, make sure your tank has cycled first. read the pinned topics at the top of the SW secions first to help with this.
g) i opt up with RO water as it evaporates as the salt won't evapoprate with the water. most people have auto top-up things on their tanks which helps maintain the water chemistry.

There is a lot of things to learn but believe me it is worth it.
Above all ask questions, they may seem stupid to you, but it's the best way to learn without making mistakes. Ask on the foums first though as a lot of fish shops will try to sell you things you dont need.
 
Well I have the tank set up and have started my fishless cycle.

Here are the tank stats thus far:

PH - 8.3
Ammonia - 3.7
Nitrate - 0.2
And my salt water is around 1.026

I have about 15 lbs of live rock in the tank with two 20 gallon filters. I know I need more live rock and it'll be coming soon. As for lighting, the 'guy' at Pets Unlimited suggested that I opt for no lighting until about the third week of the fishless cycle. I'll be going with a dual T5 canopy. Any ideas of opinions on the no lights?

Still planning on the clown fish, cleaner shrimp and maybe some a yellow tank. What would be some suggestions on plant life to get?

Thanks,

Jason
 
How big is the tank? For just about any tang, most people suggest 100 gal+.

People suggest that you keep the lights off while cycling (or "cooking" live rock) to prevent excessive algae growth.

If you have a sump, many reefkeepers put in a refugium with a macroalgae Caulerpa or Cheato.

This is a good resource for reefkeeping, as is this one
 

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