Focus On Fish Article.
- Thread starter WILDER
- Start date
/secure.wsa.u-net.com/www.animalaid....t/focusfish.htm
I didnt even know Focus sold fish let alone animals.
Will read the rest of that article sometime soon.
Thanks for posting it
Will read the rest of that article sometime soon.
Thanks for posting it
chibi
Fish Herder
While I am against sticking fish in big places like Walmart because of impulse buyers, PETA really pisses me off. They want to outlaw the sale of fish as pets. They are also against any form of pets and believe people should set all their pets free into the wild. NO ONE should be able to tell me what to do with myself. If I want to keep fish, let me keep fish. Just because you think they should all be loose in the wild doesn't mean I should have to set mine free. Besides, if we are ordered to set our fish free, no one is going to fly to Central America to release their guppies. They'll release into the closest body of water and screw up the ecosystem.
That just... irks me. PETA wanting it to be illegal to keep fish. If you're against it, fine, don't own them. But it's a hobby, and I think they should mind their own business.
I'm happy about the company listed not selling fish at a DIY store. I think fish should be solely sold at specialty fish stores. I'm not even sure I support Petstores selling them. I'm still iffy about that. I think it's best if the main concern of all employees is the wellfare of their fish. When there are other factors in there, it makes the fish much more miserable.
That just... irks me. PETA wanting it to be illegal to keep fish. If you're against it, fine, don't own them. But it's a hobby, and I think they should mind their own business.
I'm happy about the company listed not selling fish at a DIY store. I think fish should be solely sold at specialty fish stores. I'm not even sure I support Petstores selling them. I'm still iffy about that. I think it's best if the main concern of all employees is the wellfare of their fish. When there are other factors in there, it makes the fish much more miserable.
Tokis-Phoenix
^_^
PETA will lie to try and convert people to their cause by mis-representing facts or out-right lying. I have some comments on what has been said by this "Animal Aid"
"Increased heart rate, increased breathing rate, adrenaline rush, writhing, gasping - fish display similar signs to humans when under stress and faced with dangerous situations. Fish feel pain out of biological necessity, just as all mammals do. They possess a brain, central nervous system and pain receptors all over their bodies. Without the ability to feel pain they would not survive. They also produce enkephalins and endorphins, chemicals known to counter pain in humans. Scientific reports from around the world substantiate these basic realities"
Fish aren't mammals- and as far as i know, there has never been a conclusive report that all fish feel pain, as pain recepting abilities vary from each type of fish- just like there are many different types of fish in varying stages of evolution, some fish are more advanced than others pain receptor wise.
"The lifespan of a fish is much longer than people tend to think. For example, goldfish can live for up to 25 years."
They keep on saying "fish" but its just as vague as saying "animals", as lifespan/life expectancy varies a greatly across fish, goldfish can also live well over 25 and not just up to (i believe the oldest common goldfish recorded was 47 years old for example).
"All the evidence points to the fact that ornamental fish do not thrive in captivity and instead become stressed and sick. Animal Aid is delighted by the public pledge by Focus to end all ornamental fish sales, and urges members of the public to stop and think before making a purchase of fish, from whatever outlet."
"Ornemental" fish do thrive in captivity, there thousands of people on this forum alone who have fish thriving in their aquariums. It is more than acheivable to provide a good, healthy and satisfying habitat for any fish as long as you are willing to put the time, effort and money into looking after the fish
.
"Increased heart rate, increased breathing rate, adrenaline rush, writhing, gasping - fish display similar signs to humans when under stress and faced with dangerous situations. Fish feel pain out of biological necessity, just as all mammals do. They possess a brain, central nervous system and pain receptors all over their bodies. Without the ability to feel pain they would not survive. They also produce enkephalins and endorphins, chemicals known to counter pain in humans. Scientific reports from around the world substantiate these basic realities"
Fish aren't mammals- and as far as i know, there has never been a conclusive report that all fish feel pain, as pain recepting abilities vary from each type of fish- just like there are many different types of fish in varying stages of evolution, some fish are more advanced than others pain receptor wise.
"The lifespan of a fish is much longer than people tend to think. For example, goldfish can live for up to 25 years."
They keep on saying "fish" but its just as vague as saying "animals", as lifespan/life expectancy varies a greatly across fish, goldfish can also live well over 25 and not just up to (i believe the oldest common goldfish recorded was 47 years old for example).
"All the evidence points to the fact that ornamental fish do not thrive in captivity and instead become stressed and sick. Animal Aid is delighted by the public pledge by Focus to end all ornamental fish sales, and urges members of the public to stop and think before making a purchase of fish, from whatever outlet."
"Ornemental" fish do thrive in captivity, there thousands of people on this forum alone who have fish thriving in their aquariums. It is more than acheivable to provide a good, healthy and satisfying habitat for any fish as long as you are willing to put the time, effort and money into looking after the fish
.dwarfgourami
Fish Connoisseur
They seem tremendously worried about the fact that some fish are culled because they do not "make the grade". What do they think happens in the wild? Kindly Mother Nature looks after them all and lets them all enjoy a long happy life? Didn't the Hitchhiker's Guide feature a planet covered in fish? That would be this one!
Admittedly, it is a problem that some breeders cull for the wrong reasons- but not all. And this is a case where educating the customers could really make a difference. Like running fish forums.
It is also a fact that quite a few fish would be extinct now, because of pollution and habitat attrition, if it were not for the aquarists. Where would the goodeids be now? the WCMs? the cherry barbs?
Admittedly, it is a problem that some breeders cull for the wrong reasons- but not all. And this is a case where educating the customers could really make a difference. Like running fish forums.
It is also a fact that quite a few fish would be extinct now, because of pollution and habitat attrition, if it were not for the aquarists. Where would the goodeids be now? the WCMs? the cherry barbs?
Callum
Fishaholic
i agree with a few points but keeping an aquarium shouldnt be outlawed there should just be a fish awareness programe.
I wonder how many Peta members do keep fish? I bet its more than people think.
OohFeeshy
It's only forever; not long at all...
Also, how likely are the sort of rubbish middle-east fish farms to do that? By culling as many fish as the article makes out, they'd loose a hell of a lot of money. We've all seen fish with spinal deformities and other birth defects in shops- if the article was true in that respect, it wouldn't happen.
LiveLifeGoJump
Fish Crazy
Haven't read the article fully as yet but isn't this how life is going.
Too many people want to ban/enforce things because they don't like them the way they are, because of the compensation culture that is ever growing in many countries or just for the wrong reason.
With animal rights/(extreeme) vegatarian groups they say we should not eat meat as animals have rights but many of these animals would not exsist/be born if man did not eat meat. They seem to think that if no one ate meat the the animals would live a long & happy life. The truth is closer to the fact that many of the breeds of animals would cease to exsist or suffer (cows NEED milking etc.) and that a great many non-domesticated animals would suffer & die as hedgerows are removed to provide a vegetarian diet for everyone.
Despite environmentalists saying we need more trees etc. a local council is cutting down trees (in tree lined streets) in case a child climbs one, falls & hurts themselver the sues the council.
Trying to ban some sports because those involved may get killed (skydiving for example) yet allowing more dangerous activities such as driving).
Buying a house near to an airfield that's been there 12 years & trying to get it closed because you don't like the noise & claiming it will get worse when easyjet start operation there (yeah right, Boing 747 on a 600 yrd runway 7 yrds wide), well it did scare a few.
The list of examples is endless.
As for banning fishkeeping, unfortunatly we can't use the excuse that we are preserving species as we keep them in tanks in our homes when the species should be living free in rivers etc. Those taken from the wild (if done correctly) should not deplete wild stocks as nature produces vast quantities in order that a few will survive. It is often the destruction of they natural habitat caused by pollution & increasing requirements for agricultral or building land that is causing the biggest problem.
Banning fishkeeping will make little difference in wild stocks (other than to the some species that would cease to be far earlier than they would if it were not for fishkeepers who are actively trying to redress the habitat & polution problems by breeding & restocking).
Releasing pets to the wild is a cruel option as most are not able to defend themselves & will die . Those that don't could well be released into the wrong place (grey squirrels in Britian is a major problem). Creat care would be required.
These people won't be happy until everything is banned.
Too many people want to ban/enforce things because they don't like them the way they are, because of the compensation culture that is ever growing in many countries or just for the wrong reason.
With animal rights/(extreeme) vegatarian groups they say we should not eat meat as animals have rights but many of these animals would not exsist/be born if man did not eat meat. They seem to think that if no one ate meat the the animals would live a long & happy life. The truth is closer to the fact that many of the breeds of animals would cease to exsist or suffer (cows NEED milking etc.) and that a great many non-domesticated animals would suffer & die as hedgerows are removed to provide a vegetarian diet for everyone.
Despite environmentalists saying we need more trees etc. a local council is cutting down trees (in tree lined streets) in case a child climbs one, falls & hurts themselver the sues the council.
Trying to ban some sports because those involved may get killed (skydiving for example) yet allowing more dangerous activities such as driving).
Buying a house near to an airfield that's been there 12 years & trying to get it closed because you don't like the noise & claiming it will get worse when easyjet start operation there (yeah right, Boing 747 on a 600 yrd runway 7 yrds wide), well it did scare a few.
The list of examples is endless.
As for banning fishkeeping, unfortunatly we can't use the excuse that we are preserving species as we keep them in tanks in our homes when the species should be living free in rivers etc. Those taken from the wild (if done correctly) should not deplete wild stocks as nature produces vast quantities in order that a few will survive. It is often the destruction of they natural habitat caused by pollution & increasing requirements for agricultral or building land that is causing the biggest problem.
Banning fishkeeping will make little difference in wild stocks (other than to the some species that would cease to be far earlier than they would if it were not for fishkeepers who are actively trying to redress the habitat & polution problems by breeding & restocking).
Releasing pets to the wild is a cruel option as most are not able to defend themselves & will die . Those that don't could well be released into the wrong place (grey squirrels in Britian is a major problem). Creat care would be required.
These people won't be happy until everything is banned.
Tokis-Phoenix
^_^
I totally agree with you LiveLifeGoJump- a lot of these animal rights groups really have no idea about what they are really fighting for half the time, and few think of the consequences. Out-right bans or legalisations rarely on things rarely solve anything, as you simply cannot lump everybody into groups and expect the same rules or laws to work for everyone.
Also, farming will never go out of buisness unless the whole world becomes vegetarian or something, which is highly unlikely- until these people can accept they we are all part of a natural omnivorous food chain and that treating animals well and with respect but also acknoledging it is fine to eat them as you treat them well in life, then things will not progress until then.
Also, farming will never go out of buisness unless the whole world becomes vegetarian or something, which is highly unlikely- until these people can accept they we are all part of a natural omnivorous food chain and that treating animals well and with respect but also acknoledging it is fine to eat them as you treat them well in life, then things will not progress until then.
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