Fluval U2

[JoshuaA]

Anything can be used as filter media, anything! Well done in cycling your tank that quick, I can assure you that filter floss is used primererly as a water polisher, it should be used in first stage filtration, to th OP if your gonna use extra media then use a sponge, it houses more bacteria. You will only ever see manufacturers using floss as first line filtration.

As you said anything can be used in filter media, I can assure you filter floss can primarily be used for bacterial housing also. A sponge with less surface area vs floss with vastly superior surface area... which houses more bacteria? The coarse fluval u2 sponge barely contains any bacteria, none noticeable at all it is so coarse it barely picks up anything in terms of dirt.

I'm not sure what you mean by first stage either, if anything for a polisher it should be the last media used correct? Otherwise it will block up apparently with all the dirt every other day apparently and therefore would render the rest of your media ineffective. Where as if it was the last stage to "polish" same as washing a car after all previous processes have been done then it would be sensible in your eyes to put it there... correct? You order your sponges usually in coarsest to finest right?

I really don't see what problem you have with filter floss after all the floss houses enough bacteria in a confined space to reduce the chances of a mini cycle as I have frequently pointed out if you replace the carbon pads with a sponge then when you want to need carbon inserts you're likely going to send yourself into a mini cycle by removing and I quote...

extra media then use a sponge, it houses more bacteria

So with your sponge you will more than likely cause a mini cycle. Where as with the floss in between you don't have to remove it to place a carbon insert in.

I know you're for some reason not going to budge on this and I don't really understand why you don't look at the evidence that floss is vastly greater than the coarse U2 sponge for homing bacteria. Even with floss half the thickness of the U2 sponge you will be introducing a vastly superior surface area.

Finally I can assure you floss is primarily used to home bacteria in my current U1 and U2 setup, along with the biomax nodes. I could guarantee you I would not see a mini cycle by removing the coarse sponges. After all I even rinse them under hot tap water to clean them since they're purely for catching large particles of dirt.

you can use any media to help cycle a tank i think sponge would be best but anything will do

A media with highest concentration of bacteria would be the best which would be filter floss if placed correctly in the filter or ceramics. It is the inbetweener of Ceramic and Sponge in terms of surface area, If you take note of the difference in Fluval U1 and U2 sponges, where the U1 sponge is used to filter and home bacteria where as the U2 is sized for filtering particles mainly.

I stress that once again I'm only talking about using a slither of floss between the two pads so not to effect water flow rate but makes a massive difference.

I will also guarantee that if you were to take a snipping of the same size of sponge as I did floss it would take A LOT longer to cycle with the sponge than floss.

Just to further support my opinion following this link you will see the explanation for the stages of filtration...
Hagen/Fluval
You will notice that under the sponge it says "Removes large particles." Yet goes on to say the Ceramics "Provides optimum biological balance." So it would say that about the coarse sponge if it were true also... correct?

 

[ian]

There's a good article dome by neale monks about filter media, I suggest you give it a read. Anyways, just to carry on the sarcastic tones, do you have microscopes as eyes josh, cos you keep going on about seeing bacteria, this is truley some feat! You don't need to mention about cycling tanks to me josh, I know how to cycle a fish tank in more ways than one. I stated at the begining of this discussion that floss clogged quickly (as it does), so i wouldn't use it in the U2 or any U series. The sponges are quite adequate at removing the dirt in the water. So, once again, to the OP, use a sponge if you don't want to loose flow from your filter.

http/www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwfiltrmedart.htm

^^that article.

 

[JoshuaA]

There's a good article dome by neale monks about filter media, I suggest you give it a read. Anyways, just to carry on the sarcastic tones, do you have microscopes as eyes josh, cos you keep going on about seeing bacteria, this is truley some feat! You don't need to mention about cycling tanks to me josh, I know how to cycle a fish tank in more ways than one. I stated at the begining of this discussion that floss clogged quickly (as it does), so i wouldn't use it in the U2 or any U series. The sponges are quite adequate at removing the dirt in the water. So, once again, to the OP, use a sponge if you don't want to loose flow from your filter.

http/www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwfiltrmedart.htm

^^that article.

Quoted from that link you sent me.

Usage: Outstanding for mechanical filtration, but also good for biological filtration

There is really no point putting two coarse sponges in the fluval U2... after all if you look at the Poly/Carbon pad it is a form of floss amirite?

Also have you never seen a petri dish? Never seen the bacterial colonies form in which you don't need a microscope to see them? No? Perhaps the fact when you have vast concentrations of bacteria on filter media you might actually been in the same scenario here.

Anyway, why don't you go run a Fluval U2 like I have and currently still do with filter floss in it and then come back and tell me your findings rather than trying disprove its effectiveness without even trying.

 

[ian]

I have seen many Petrie dishes and I have never seen bacteria colonies on a sponge though, I have seen the muck and gunk that the bacteria live in, but never the colony in a filter. Pehaps I should head to spec savers. I see you critiqued that article well. I tell you what, do ya think we should agree to disagree on this matter because how much you read, you still cannot take that floss is best used for polishing as it CLOGS up very quickly and the amount of time you send cleaning it, it might as well not be there as biological filltration as when you clean it most of the bacteria get damaged anyways, but as u say you haven't cleaned yours for 3 months. In my eyes that bad filter management.

END

 

[JoshuaA]

In my eyes that bad filter management.

A thin layer of floss doesn't effect the water flow dramatically it also isn't as bad as you're making out for clogging. I made an evaluation of that article on the fact that it clearly states floss has multiple purposes just because it is the best water polisher out there does not mean it can't act in a biological filtration role. I am yet to DENY the fact it does polish water, merely I am encouraging it's use for biological filtration also in which your link supports my opinion. You still seem to struggle at getting your head around it. The fact the tank has been at 0,0 since day one and the output hasn't changed one bit isn't a big deal.

Ceramic media in some forms is also a form of mechanical filtration as the water trickles through the "chips" and filters through it but its primarily used for biological use. Filter medias have multiple uses. However I still stand firm that filter floss is vastly superior for biological housing than specifically a coarse U2 sponge. However there are much better sponges out there for example the sponges which come on Eheim Aquaballs and even the Fluval U1 sponge. Though the U2 sponge is DEFINITELY NOT good for biological housing or filtration it is a very poorly designed sponged which traps barely any dirt and fails to house bacteria effectively due to its very small surface area.

One day I will come back show you a picture of how its laid out, perhaps then you will reconsider your opinions as I stress again it is a very thin layer between the coarse and the Poly/Carbon(Carbon + floss pad). In fact you can usually see through the floss if you hold it up.

three different types of sponge: coarse sponges for mechanical filtration, fine sponges for biological filtration, and carbon-impregnated sponges for chemical filtration.

This quote is from your favoured link again, it specifically states coarse sponges are used for mechanical filtration and will likely not home much bacteria at all. So what would be the point in putting 2 coarse sponges in after all?

Remove from filter at least once a month and rinse thoroughly in plenty of clean water.

This is a vastly different claim than your every other day claim, which is outrageous to say the least.

So our current U2 lay out is...

Coarse Sponge > Filter Floss (~0.5cm thick) > Poly/Carbon > Ceramics (twice as much as provided with the filter).


In my eyes your giving out false information.

 

[ian]

Look Josh, read my posts back!! False information? Then report me to a mod to sort out, I don't need a newb telling me that after 3 months of experience. Get you facts straight before claiming I'm giving false info. If there is somtuing I'm yet to learn about fishkeeping I will not blindly go in and post what I feel is best, I'll sit back and wait and read what the vast majority are doing. I won't just post for the sake of it. Google, read journals, ask people here, if filter floss clogs, now like I say read back through my post and this is the basis of my argument everytime. Not bouncing into mini cycles and other bits that are gonna confuse people. Like u said in a previous post, "this is section is mainly used by newbs, so let's not confuse them".

 

[JoshuaA]

Look Josh, read my posts back!! False information? Then report me to a mod to sort out, I don't need a newb telling me that after 3 months of experience. Get you facts straight before claiming I'm giving false info. If there is somtuing I'm yet to learn about fishkeeping I will not blindly go in and post what I feel is best, I'll sit back and wait and read what the vast majority are doing. I won't just post for the sake of it. Google, read journals, ask people here, if filter floss clogs, now like I say read back through my post and this is the basis of my argument everytime. Not bouncing into mini cycles and other bits that are gonna confuse people. Like u said in a previous post, "this is section is mainly used by newbs, so let's not confuse them".

Well actually a good few points for me to pick on... coarse sponge which if it did in your eyes home bacteria and then was removed for carbon replacements would likely cause a mini cycle > fact and you should know that.

You claim it clogged up every other day.... your site claimed monthly, which one to believe?

Whether filter floss clogs in massive pads or not maybe you should try the setup I have and see for yourself.

I also claimed it was 3 months using the filter not in fish keeping so I don't know why you're acting like that.

Anyway the fact is you said it clogs so badly it needs cleaning every other day, then you link me to something to try disprove me and it claims monthly which one do I believe if you claim both are right?

I don't need someone who HAS NOT tried the setup I am explaining trying to tell me something different when I have it in front of me in perfect working order.

So lets look at an over view of this, small amount of filter floss = not likely to clog all that much or restrict flow specifically state by your link on the site is great for homing bacteria even in small amounts. Allows freedom of changing carbon pads in the Fluval U2 without expecting mini cycles.

Your set up another coarse sponge not really capable of homing bacteria only filtering large particles however you claim it's good for bacteria housing. You then need poly carbon inserts to remove meds you place in... ooh have to remove the sponge... oops lots of bacteria gone... what do?

All you seem to have in your small minded head is that filter floss clogs? Not that it homes bacteria effectively in a small space, not the fact that if you need to replace the Poly/Carbon insert or in your eyes coarse sponge and if you have bacteria on that insert you automatically take away a huge population and can send yourself into a mini cycle.

Someone as "experienced" like yourself should know this and I don't know why you're trying to deny it.

I don't need a newb telling me that after 3 months of experience.

I don't need someone who is "experienced" avoiding the blindingly obvious that replacing the Poly/Carbon itself with a sponge isn't ideal.

You don't appear to have this filter and you probably won't bother going to get it to check. Look at the facts... you should easily be able to work it out.

Finally let me reiterate the fact that the Poly/Carbon pad actually has a quantity of fine floss on it. So what do I do now?

Come back with something other than it clogs. Stop trying to avoid the implications that replacing pad completely involves.

Edit:

To add onto this, you claim they invested so much money into their products omg omg omg etc and then they go and include a form of floss in their the Poly/Carbon inserts OH THE HUMANITY! Explain that one to me?

Stop with the it clogs, we know it does and it does faster than sponge but that isn't relevant when you are using it for biological media in small quantities.

 

[ian]

Well actually a good few points for me to pick on... coarse sponge which if it did in your eyes home bacteria and then was removed for carbon replacements would likely cause a mini cycle > fact and you should know that.not true, if you replace one pad at a time and arn't overstocked in the first place.

You claim it clogged up every other day.... your site claimed monthly, which one to believe?
ok, an over exageration, but it does clog quickly, i have used floss in all my filters, including the U2, i did remove it after a week as flow was reduced

Whether filter floss clogs in massive pads or not maybe you should try the setup I have and see for yourself.
sarcastic ....read above

I also claimed it was 3 months using the filter not in fish keeping so I don't know why you're acting like that.
i have read your profile, if your gonna use i kept goldfish in a bowl as a child...it doesn't really count

Anyway the fact is you said it clogs so badly it needs cleaning every other day, then you link me to something to try disprove me and it claims monthly which one do I believe if you claim both are right?as above (repeat ones self over and over

I don't need someone who HAS NOT tried the setup I am explaining trying to tell me something different when I have it in front of me in perfect working order.as above again...can you hear yourself now Josh, this is how annoying its getting

So lets look at an over view of this, small amount of filter floss = not likely to clog all that much or restrict flow specifically state by your link on the site is great for homing bacteria even in small amounts. Allows freedom of changing carbon pads in the Fluval U2 without expecting mini cycles.give him an a level, BTW in the link i can't see where it says its great?? can you find that? box filters is what its best used, but we don't tend to use these in the hobby anymore

Your set up another coarse sponge not really capable of homing bacteria only filtering large particles however you claim it's good for bacteria housing. You then need poly carbon inserts to remove meds you place in... ooh have to remove the sponge... oops lots of bacteria gone... what do?as above again falling asleep now

All you seem to have in your small minded head is that filter floss clogs? Not that it homes bacteria effectively in a small space, not the fact that if you need to replace the Poly/Carbon insert or in your eyes coarse sponge and if you have bacteria on that insert you automatically take away a huge population and can send yourself into a mini cycle.small minded?? i could class that as offensive. I stated above that everything in your filter houses bacteria, as for the mini cycle, as above again.

Someone as "experienced" like yourself should know this and I don't know why you're trying to deny it.and what have i denied?? all i say is that not to use floss as it'll clog easy, using another sponge is just as good.

I don't need a newb telling me that after 3 months of experience.

I don't need someone who is "experienced" avoiding the blindingly obvious that replacing the Poly/Carbon itself with a sponge isn't ideal.

You don't appear to have this filter and you probably won't bother going to get it to check. Look at the facts... you should easily be able to work it out.

Finally let me reiterate the fact that the Poly/Carbon pad actually has a quantity of fine floss on it. So what do I do now?

Come back with something other than it clogs. Stop trying to avoid the implications that replacing pad completely involves.

Edit:

To add onto this, you claim they invested so much money into their products omg omg omg etc and then they go and include a form of floss in their the Poly/Carbon inserts OH THE HUMANITY! Explain that one to me?

Stop with the it clogs, we know it does and it does faster than sponge but that isn't relevant when you are using it for biological media in small quantities.

and this is when i did fall asleep, after hearing the same comment written in a different way. Josh you should become a politition.

 

[JoshuaA]

and this is when i did fall asleep, after hearing the same comment written in a different way. Josh you should become a politition.

Funny because I can say the same thing about you.

So you're now suggesting when you want to remove meds you gradually put the carbon pads in? So not to cause a mini cycle? However in the end you're still removing the bacteria and replacing it with bacterialess pads?

Once again I will repeat myself, I actually have experience in using the setup in this filter the way it is, you clearly do not and you're making assumptions on it without even trying it. Whether 1/2/3/ or more months its still more than you with this filter in this way. It's not about total experience but experiences and uses of a specific product. It's like you rating a car you've never driven.

I will repeat myself till I'm blue in the face because you're still not getting it. Initially claiming its because Fluval spent money on their design and didn't include floss when actually they did on their Poly/Carbon pads. Then you claim it clogs every other day, which it doesn't. I used the word "great" as a replacement for Good/Better than sponge. You know that but you're just nit picking. Your link supported the use of floss as biological media and you're still trying to deny it.

Once again I will request that you actually try it with a Fluval U2 filter. Though you will just come back and act like the big boy that you are.

At the end of the day, the filter in this setup has been 0,0 throughout water is crystal clear and media only needs a squeeze none of this washing thoroughly under a tap nonsense. The quantity of floss is only small and therefore barely restricts if at all water flow, the bacterial will either form mostly on the outside if the floss is clogged or in between the actually individual fibres. As opposed to your sponge in which the bacteria barely forms on it if at all.

P.S It wasn't a bowl it was a 120L cold water corner tank.

Also for small minded? Offensive possible, but true? Yes

 

[chesterscot]

Hi
filter floss is crap it is too dense to keep good flow when used as machanicall filtration but perfect to "finish" water off if it was a silver bullet I would expect it too be in a lot more filters but it isnt go figure

regards scot

 

[ian]

Big boy what do you mean by that ??

i'm not gonna go and spend £30 on something just to prove your method, when if you read back (i'm repeating myself again) i have already tried it and it clogged and reduced flow...OMG.

As for the mini cycle, you're only supposed to remove the carbon pads 1 by 1, your not gonna cause a mini cycle by doing this.

right i suggest we take this to PM as we are messing this thread up.

Hi
filter floss is crap it is too dense to keep good flow when used as machanicall filtration but perfect to "finish" water off if it was a silver bullet I would expect it too be in a lot more filters but it isnt go figure

regards scot

Thank you.

 

[JoshuaA]

Hi
filter floss is crap it is too dense to keep good flow when used as machanicall filtration but perfect to "finish" water off if it was a silver bullet I would expect it too be in a lot more filters but it isnt go figure

regards scot

It already is in the Fluval U2 in the Poly/Carbon and as opposed to too dense you use a small quantity. (Using for biological, not mechanical)

Anyway,

I think we should end this here neither of us will budge on this and lets not say "agree to disagree" because we always follow up with an argument.

Ends now _______________

 

[chesterscot]

look if its dense its dense no matter how much you use
(ie) in a piece of wood the atoms are close together this is its density if you lopp a small piece of wood off a log it is still the same (contains everything the log did just a smaller portion)

unless josh you can split the atom (this I doubt)

regards

thats me done

 

[JoshuaA]

look if its dense its dense no matter how much you use
(ie) in a piece of wood the atoms are close together this is its density if you lopp a small piece of wood off a log it is still the same (contains everything the log did just a smaller portion)

unless josh you can split the atom (this I doubt)

regards

thats me done

Lol if we want to put some physics in it, yes you can make it less dense by feathering it out with your fingers. You increase the volume but decrease the density as you have increased the total volume in which you want that size piece of floss to cover.

Wiki Def

The density of a material is defined as its mass per unit volume.

Picture it like a sponge, if you squeeze it in your hand the volume decreases and the density increases. It's not about splitting the atom it's about volume.

So yes it appears I can split the atoms, or at least separate materials.

Anyway,

I feel our "debate" got a little out of hand ianho, I offer an apology but of course I still disagree lol.

 

[chesterscot]

if you spread it out that means there is less surface area for bacteria to colonise so would a sponge not do better

I understand density although I did not explain myself very well

scot