Fishless Cycle?

[Didge007]

I've had it brought to my attention that I am not carrying out a fishless cycle properly (no surprises to me lol). I popped on over and checked out the article written about fishless cycle and am reading I have to add ammonia and make checks on levels...what?

My LFS told me to fill the tank, treat water and hook filter/heater/aeration up and let it run for a week and a half before I transfer a few fish over to my new tank. The new tank is a 2.5ft lightly planted tropical tank (or will be). I have rainwater. I've turned the heat up to 29C but unsure if this will help in anyway. The filter and heater are second hand from friend who I bought the tank off. Have replaced carbon and filter media. Have had tank running for two days now and was planning on adding my two rosey barbs in about a week (I figure I would rather them die if something is wrong and not my other fish). pH is 6-7 (normally 7). Will bring temp down obviously when fish are added.

So what am I missing out on? I've never carried out such an extensive cycle before. I'm sure it's just by pure luck I've never lost a fish when adding to a new tank (and my friend who brought a new tank, filled it and added her mature angels, gourami and silver dollar in the same day and didn't lose anything - I still cringe when I think about that).

I'm very confused because even when I was considering a discus tank (small discus tank lol) I was told leave it for 3weeks and let it run. I was never told to add anything. Help please!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I've had it brought to my attention that I am not carrying out a fishless cycle properly (no surprises to me lol). I popped on over and checked out the article written about fishless cycle and am reading I have to add ammonia and make checks on levels...what?

My LFS told me to fill the tank, treat water and hook filter/heater/aeration up and let it run for a week and a half before I transfer a few fish over to my new tank. The new tank is a 2.5ft lightly planted tropical tank (or will be). I have rainwater. I've turned the heat up to 29C but unsure if this will help in anyway. The filter and heater are second hand from friend who I bought the tank off. Have replaced carbon and filter media. Have had tank running for two days now and was planning on adding my two rosey barbs in about a week (I figure I would rather them die if something is wrong and not my other fish). pH is 6-7 (normally 7). Will bring temp down obviously when fish are added.

So what am I missing out on? I've never carried out such an extensive cycle before. I'm sure it's just by pure luck I've never lost a fish when adding to a new tank (and my friend who brought a new tank, filled it and added her mature angels, gourami and silver dollar in the same day and didn't lose anything - I still cringe when I think about that).

I'm very confused because even when I was considering a discus tank (small discus tank lol) I was told leave it for 3weeks and let it run. I was never told to add anything. Help please!

Welcome to the club. I am currently running a fishless cycle. I am on day 2 (or 3, depending on how you count it). The scenario is actually very simple. It's just a question of how patient can you be about having fish? If you cannot be that patient, you might want to try a fish-in cycle. The stakes are higher with a fish-in cycle. Have you read the entire Beginner's Resource Center? It is definitely worth a good going over.

Long story short, in the US head over to Ace HArdware and get some ammonia. In the UK, you can get it from Boots. There is a calculator at the bottom of the this page. This will help you determine how much ammonia you will need to add to reach 4 ppm ammonia in the tank. Secondly, you test the ammonia every day. You will need a good kit for this. I am using the API Master Test Kit. This includes: pH, high pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

If you have read the entire thread, then you know there are basically three phases to the fishless cycle.

Phase 1 - add ammonia, and wait for it to drop to zero.
Phase 2 - redose ammonia every time it hits zero and wait for nitrite to hit zero.
Phase 3 - redose ammonia every 24 hours, and wait for double zeros for ammonia and nitrite after 12 hours.
(Phase 4 could be the qualifying week, where you continue to have double zeros every 12 hours.)


Others will be along to offer instructions along the way. Set your temp up to around 84F (29-30C), and you pH up to around 8.0-8.4 (use sodium bicarb to do this). ***Only add sodium bicarb for the fishless cycle, not while you have fish!*** When you add the fish, you obviously would want a lower temp, and the pH should be much closer to your tap water, so that there isn't a constant battle with every water change. Best of luck!

 

[Didge007]

So would it be ok to add the rosey barbs? They are pretty tough and have lived through every mistake I've made (poor little guys). Also when should I add them? The tanks been up and running for 2days now. It's had Prime used to dechlorinate water. Should rainwater have bacteria in it anyways (just a wild guess)? And if I add the barbs how long do I leave them in their before I shift the other three fish (an angel, dwarf gourami and pictus) over? The roseys will then be taken out of the tank.

Read the article, vey informative

 

[eaglesaquarium]

So would it be ok to add the rosey barbs? They are pretty tough and have lived through every mistake I've made (poor little guys). Also when should I add them? The tanks been up and running for 2days now. It's had Prime used to dechlorinate water. Should rainwater have bacteria in it anyways (just a wild guess)? And if I add the barbs how long do I leave them in their before I shift the other three fish (an angel, dwarf gourami and pictus) over? The roseys will then be taken out of the tank.

Read the article, vey informative

Well, it sounds like you really want (or perhaps need) to do the fish-in cycle. If that is the case, DON'T ADD AMMONIA! The fish will add enough ammonia on their own. Prime is a nice product for a fish-in cycle, because it has the ability to help knock down some of the ammonia. If ammonia or nitrite are readable on a test kit (0.25ppm) you need to do a water change large enough to drop it, immediately. Testing will have to happen on a daily basis, perhaps more often if the levels are up.

I wouldn't add the angels, gouramis or any other sensitive fish before the tank is fully cycled.



If you haven't actually gotten any barbs yet, I think that it is better that you wait and cycle the tank. That would be my recommendation, but a fish-in cycle is a perfectly acceptable way to cycle a tank. Having some plants in the tank can make it a bit easier. In fact, with a significant amount of fast growing plants you can add some fish without as much concern about ammonia poisoning. (There is a nice thread about "cycling" in a planted tank in the planted section. Linked here.)

 

[Didge007]

I have the barbs...have had them for donkeys years! I must say, toughest fish I've ever come across. So can I add them straight away? I only have two plants in there at the moment, definately adding more. Will see if my partner can pick me up a ammonia and nitrate test on thursday, unfortunately thats the best I can do with pay and working hours

Water changes...how many of those should I be doing with this new tank and how much?

When the tank is fully cycled how will I know?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I have the barbs...have had them for donkeys years! I must say, toughest fish I've ever come across. So can I add them straight away? I only have two plants in there at the moment, definately adding more. Will see if my partner can pick me up a ammonia and nitrate test on thursday, unfortunately thats the best I can do with pay and working hours

Water changes...how many of those should I be doing with this new tank and how much?

When the tank is fully cycled how will I know?

The tank will be cycled when you don't see any readings on the ammonia and nitrite tests. When they are both reading zero consistently without having to do water changes, then it is cycled. Without a test kit it is tough to know exactly how often or how much water change you need to do. Without any testing, I would suggest going with 50% water changes daily. That might be more than you need, but it might also be less than you need. A second recommendation would be to cut down the amount you are feeding and be sure that any uneaten food is removed from the tank immediately. When doing the water changes be sure to do a gravel clean while you are taking the water out, to remove as much waste as possible. The waste and extra food will both create extra ammonia that will need to be removed as soon as possible. By cutting your food down, you also cut down on the amount of waste the fish produce.

Do you have any mature filter media that you could add to your filter? This will help to speed the cycling time.



I'm sure a more senior member of this board will be along shortly to offer you some more instructions.

 

[Didge007]

Poor little barbs, no bloodworms for them for a little while. Okay so 50% changes, adding Prime each time?

Unfortunately no extra media, I threw the old stuff out that was already in it as it was out of someone elses tank (and had been sitting out of water for a good month) and didn't like the idea of it going in the tank. This is so stress full and I'm a very impatient person lol!

Also any suggestions on how to make my air pump quieter? It's so loud and annoying! Also it has a habit of turning itself off and then on again in an hour or two...normal?

I'm sure a more senior member of this board will be along shortly to offer you some more instructions.

You've been very helpful

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Poor little barbs, no bloodworms for them for a little while. Okay so 50% changes, adding Prime each time?

Unfortunately no extra media, I threw the old stuff out that was already in it as it was out of someone elses tank (and had been sitting out of water for a good month) and didn't like the idea of it going in the tank. This is so stress full and I'm a very impatient person lol!

Also any suggestions on how to make my air pump quieter? It's so loud and annoying! Also it has a habit of turning itself off and then on again in an hour or two...normal?

I'm sure a more senior member of this board will be along shortly to offer you some more instructions.

You've been very helpful

Most definitely add Prime each time. You will need to dechlorinate, and Prime will do that. It will also help with some free ammonia in the tank after the water change. Loud air pumps can be replaced, but other than trying to insulate it a little bit (place on a folded up paper towel), might help with some of the vibrations that it creates around it. I've never heard of an air pump turning itself off and on. That's peculiar. Is there a problem with the outlet? A loose connection could be the culprit with that.


I appreciate the kind words, but the things I'm offering are primarily common sense type solutions. The true "experts" will be able to offer much more experience guided advice.

 

[Didge007]

All outlets seem to be fine, when it turns itself off no amount of fiddling turns it back on. It's been running all day today atleast. Will look into a quieter one.

Had an idea - could I take some water out of my established tank and put it into the new tank? Would it be beneficial at all?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

All outlets seem to be fine, when it turns itself off no amount of fiddling turns it back on. It's been running all day today atleast. Will look into a quieter one.

Had an idea - could I take some water out of my established tank and put it into the new tank? Would it be beneficial at all?

It wouldn't hurt, assuming one of two things: a) there are no fish in the new tank, or b) the water parameters are the same (but since you don't have a test kit, I wouldn't do that if fish were in there).

 

[OldMan47]

If you have decided to do a fish-in cycle, which it seems from your posts, just do frequent sampling and do whatever water changes it takes to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels less than 0.25 ppm at all times.
Once the new filter has matured enough, it will no longer take any water changes to achieve those levels for at least a week. At that point your tank will be cycled for whatever your fish biological load is at the time. Any increase in bio-loads will require a sample and see how things are going after the change. Your LFS could not care less how your cycle goes. If you do it wrong they get to sell you more fish or more chemical nostrums to combat whatever they tell you is your problem. They are the very last people I would trust to give you good information.

 

[Didge007]

Have not added fish as of yet as had to rush partner to hospital (he's home now). Is there anyone on here from Australia who can tell me if theyve done either fishless or fish in cycle?

I do trust this lfs as I've never bought fish from them yet, they'd never tried to sell me fish & they actually wouldn't sell a lady a betta the same day as she bought it's tank due to the tank not being ready yet (amongst other things). I will keep ur advice in mind tho thank u.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Have not added fish as of yet as had to rush partner to hospital (he's home now). Is there anyone on here from Australia who can tell me if theyve done either fishless or fish in cycle?

I do trust this lfs as I've never bought fish from them yet, they'd never tried to sell me fish & they actually wouldn't sell a lady a betta the same day as she bought it's tank due to the tank not being ready yet (amongst other things). I will keep ur advice in mind tho thank u.

I don't doubt this, but a lot of LFS will tell you to just let the set-up run for about 7 days before adding fish. That won't do anything for the tank, filter, bacteria, etc. It will just raise your electricity bill.

 

[fluttermoth]

Didge; why don't you just take some of the mature media from the filter the fish are in now and put it in the new filter? Then (with testing to make sure everything stays stable) you can move the fish right away.

If you want to move the rosy barbs, you need to take 'their bit' of filter media; what I mean by that is, if the barbs are 1/4 of your total fish stock in the old tank, you'll need to move 1/4 of the media.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Didge; why don't you just take some of the mature media from the filter the fish are in now and put it in the new filter? Then (with testing to make sure everything stays stable) you can move the fish right away.

If you want to move the rosy barbs, you need to take 'their bit' of filter media; what I mean by that is, if the barbs are 1/4 of your total fish stock in the old tank, you'll need to move 1/4 of the media.

See Didge, expert advice.