Fishless Cycle Seems To Be Struggling

[smithy387]

Hi,

I am on day 14 of my fishless cycle and all my test results so far seem to be different from any of the fishless cycle logs i have read on this forum. My ammomia level is still around the 4ppm mark and my nitrate level rose to 0.5ppm on day 7 then to 10ppm on day 10 but now seems to have dropped back down to 0.5ppm, my ph level is 6.0ppm.

I added some mature media from my other tank which has a Eheim 2026 filter to my new Fx5 filter a day after i added the ammonia to my tank (Homebase ammonia, which does'nt foam when i shake it) and yet it seems as though it has'nt helped the cycle at all.

I used the ammonia calculator from this website to measure how much ammonia to add to my tank.

All i have in my tank just now is black roman gravel.

I just can't work out why it is taking so long for the bacteria to get growing when i have added mature media from other tank filter which has been running for over 2 years.

If my cycle has stalled is there anything i can do (i.e water change) to get things moving again?

My tank details are -

Juwel Vision 450 so it's 450ltrs
My temperature is set to 30*C
I used stress coat as my dechlorinator
I am using the API master test kit

Any advise would be much appreciated

Thanks

 

[waterdrop]

Well, a couple of things jump out to comment on. Day 14 is really not all that long for things to settle down and get started. We often have cases where things still don't make much sense for the first 2 or 3 weeks and then finally start to proceed in a more understandable way. My personal feeling is this can be even more true for very big tanks and filters, like yours or pretty small ones, as the average case progression we yak about a lot is for more mid-size tanks (again, that's just a personal subtle feeling, probably wrong and not significant, lol.)

More important, you mention "6.0 ppm" pH and of course pH has nothing to do with ppm but I assume what you meant was that you recorded a measurement of pH=6 from your api liquid pH test. If that's repeatable then it would indicate that your fishless cycle could be competely stalled. The fishless cycling process stops working, its stalls out as pH drops past 6.2 and is pretty much completely stopped at 6.0. If you have enough buffering capability (higher KH measurement) in your source water, then a large 90% (ugh, I know this is work for a big tank!) could get you going for a decent amount of time before the cycling process again drops it down to 6.2, calling for you to do it again. Don't forget to condition the water with your dechlor at about 1.5x (not more than 2x) and to re-charge the ammonia after the water change.

I've got to run but many members here can help with this sort of stuff!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[smithy387]

Thanks for the quick reply Waterdrop.

Yeah i never meant to ppm after my ph test result

I suppose i better get started on that water change.

 

[smithy387]

I have done a 90% water change and my test readings are -

Ammonia-0.25ppm
Nitrite-0ppm
Nitrate-0ppm
PH-6.6

Again i used stress coat as my dechlorinator. I have'nt added any more ammonia yet.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, looks like you've got a serious water supply problem for cycling (not serious for long term, though, so don't feel that's anything to worry about)... The pH=6.6 after a big water change like that is not raising your pH enough to help much I'm afraid. This is probably indeed why you were at the longer end (2 wks) of getting any good ammonia drops for the very first part of cycling.

I would suggest that for you it would be very wise to invest in a GH/KH kit (liquid of course) and learn how to use it. These are pretty easy tests to make I believe, so any number of brands would probably be ok. I know the TetraTest KH kit is good, as I've used it and I know the API GH/KH kit is good too, as many here have used it.

GH measures general hardness and is mostly interesting to know, especially in cases like this. KH stands for Carbonate Hardness (actually it stands for the german spelling I believe) and in our cheap liquid kits the KH test is usually actually measuring Total Alklinity and using it for a surrogate of carbonate hardness because it works out that that's accurage enough. Carbonate hardness is an "action item" for the situation of dropping pH during cycling. It will give you a "leading indicator" of when to "add to your buffer" ahead of when pH will drop and cut off your cycle. When KH is above 4 german degrees you are pretty safe, with days still to go before the drop. If KH falls below 4 then you know the days are getting few before the buffering runs out and your pH will probably drop. What buffering does is to supply negative ions in the water to match up and neutralize the positive ions (H+ protons) that are making your water acid (Tums for cycling tanks, lol?)

So our method of choice during fishless cycling to raise both KH and pH is to add about a tablespoon (3 teaspoons) of baking soda per 50 liters of water volume (having measured KH in degrees german before and after and keeping records) and to be testing KH every couple days to keep an eye on it. Our bacteria grow fastest at pH 8.0 to 8.4 and the baking soda will raise the pH in that direction although probably not nearly that high, but that's ok. Use pure kitchen baking soda, not baking powder and it should be called sodium bicarbonate on the ingredients (thus we sometimes refer to it as just "bicarb".)

This is a treatment, please note, that is meant only as a guideline for during a fishless cycle, not after you have fish. Its a whole different ballgame after you do the big water change, stop adding baking soda, and add fish. At that point it will be a good choice to have fish that like soft acid water (probably, for you, but this can be investigated more over time) .. or you will make a more momentous choice and decide to use crushed coral to slowly raise and maintain your pH over the life of having fish and this will be a more serious commitment than just using a water alternator during fishless cycling.

In case I don't get back around to help I think I've given all the info and others can help, but hopefully I'll be along to chat occasionally as you go about all this!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

You are likely to find that a KH test is not something the LFS will carry. I have one but had to get it on the internet because it just was not available locally. In the meantime, use a simple approach and put a tablespoon or two into that big tank. If the pH comes up above 7.0, you can stop and worry about the KH value after you get the test kit. As the carbonate hardness added by the bicarbonate of soda gets used up the pH will start to drop again, so even without the test kit you can sort of tell how you are doing. Meanwhile, the bacterial colony will be growing every day.

 

[smithy387]

Thanks for the replys waterdrop & OldMan47, i really am grateful for such thorough replys.

I managed to pick up a Tetratest GH kit and a Sera GH test kit after visiting a few LFS. I could not find baking soda anywhere but i picked up some bicarbonate of soda (hope this is ok).

I have just tested my aquarium water following the instructions included with the test kits and my GH test result was - 5ml of aquarium water, 12 drops from GH bottle colour went green although in the instructions it says 'colour change from red to green' my test water never went to red just straight to green.

My KH test was - 5ml aquarium water, 7 drops from KH bottle colour went to yellow again in the instructions it says 'until colour changes from blue, via green to yellow' my test went straight to yellow.

I hope i have done the tests right.

I also tested my pH again and it seems as though the level has dropped to pH=6.0 again

This is a picture of my test result, Left-GH, Middle-KH, Right-pH - My test results

 

[waterdrop]

Are the KH results from before or after the bicarb was added?

Have you added any bicarb since?

 

[smithy387]

I have not added any bicarbonate of soda yet.

 

[waterdrop]

Well your KH and GH are not low at all for such a low pH. You mention two GH tests, which one is the KH again? Are you running any kind of CO2? You can still go ahead and add bicarb and see how things change.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[smithy387]

Oops, the Sera is the KH test kit.

I am not running any CO2

Should i add around 8 tablespoons of Bicarbonate of soda?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, amount of bicarb sounds good. I wonder if the Sera is right? Any chance its old?

 

[smithy387]

The expiry on the Sera kit is 05/2013

When i done the KH test i just added 1 drop at a time from KH bottle, shaking the vial a little after each drop i added from the KH bottle until the colour changed to yellow. As i mentioned earlier, the colour just went straight to yellow, it never changed to any other colour as mentioned in the KH supplied instructions.

I done the GH test the same way. 1 drop from GH bottle shook vial a little until water changed to green, albeit not a very dark green. And again the water changed straight to green, not to any other colour as mentioned in the GH supplied instructions.

Just explaining how i done the tests to make sure i have done them correctly.

 

[OldMan47]

Baking soda is sold as baking soda in North America and is also known as bicarbonate of soda and sodium bicarbonate. All of these are the same chemical. Your first test is saying that you have 7 German degrees of hardness if your kit uses the same test as mine. That is high enough that if it was KH, I would expect you to have a stable pH above 7.0. I just tested my water using the same blue to yellow test and it took only one drop to go from a slight hint of green to a solid yellow color. In very hard water I suppose it could take more than one drop to make the transition to yellow but in less hard water the color change from blue to yellow takes about 1 drop.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, you did it correctly. Instant change to yellow when one of the reagent drops is shaken into the water is what is usually seen and the count number you are on at that point is the number of german degrees of hardness.

Will be interesting to see if the bicarb raises your pH. I hope the pH test is working right...

~~waterdrop~~