Fishless Cycle Please Help!

[SLIM]

During a fishless cycle its not uncommon for the ph to drop...once you're up and running with fish in and with weekly w/c and tank maintainance the ph might not change at all.

It not good to add any buffers into the tank,has products like ph up & ph down can cause bad fluctuations on the ph which will stress fish more than having a steady ph.

I think it depends what your gh & kh readings are also,this affects the ph.

Short term use of bi carb whilst cycling will be fine has when you've finished your fishless you'll have to do a 100% w/c to clear out all the nitrate etc.
I'm not totally sure but i think its 1.5 tsp of bicarb of soda to 50 ltrs of water,let it settle then test the ph again,if its still low add another lot etc until its back up to around 8.0

Bicarb is available in most supermarkets by the baking area

Thank you thats really helped me alot!
What are gh and kh readings?

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there, I've just read over your thread and believe you are getting correct and very good advice from the others. You are off somewhere right in the middle of your fishless cycle and doing very well - they are long and tedious but well worth it.

As said, it's fine to use the bicarb (kitchen baking soda) during the fishless cycling because it will all "go out with the bathwater" so to speak. While you're fishless cycling your tank is best considered to be "bacterial growing soup" rather than the tank it will be in the future. The big water change (or two changes sometimes) that will get out most all of the nitrate will also get rid of the residual sodium or whatever is left behind from using bicarb to buffer your tank. I've done it myself and can vouch for it leaving behind no problems.

Make sure it's pure baking soda and not baking powder (which sometimes has other ingredients.)

The dosing rate varies with each individual situation and all you're aiming for is to roughly try and get your pH up in the 8.0 to 8.4 range or just closer to that than what you were having, it's not important to be terribly detailed and bicarb will reach a ceiling of how high it can push the pH anyway, but it makes sense not to overdo it.

So I tell people to try a starting dose of 2 teaspoons per 50L (you'll have to work that out for what you think your water volume is) and consider that the range of reasonable dosing is somewhere between 1 and 3 teaspoons per 50L. (One teaspoon will, for example, be the level that usually raises your KH, but does not actually raise your pH, whereas 3 teaspoons might be rather high.)

The knowledge of and relationships of GH, KH and pH get rather complicated and you can do advanced searches of those with my forum name if you want to try and hunt down posts where I've gone on about it, but really the simple info I've given you here should take care of what you need at this stage. Good luck!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SLIM]

Hi there, I've just read over your thread and believe you are getting correct and very good advice from the others. You are off somewhere right in the middle of your fishless cycle and doing very well - they are long and tedious but well worth it.

As said, it's fine to use the bicarb (kitchen baking soda) during the fishless cycling because it will all "go out with the bathwater" so to speak. While you're fishless cycling your tank is best considered to be "bacterial growing soup" rather than the tank it will be in the future. The big water change (or two changes sometimes) that will get out most all of the nitrate will also get rid of the residual sodium or whatever is left behind from using bicarb to buffer your tank. I've done it myself and can vouch for it leaving behind no problems.

Make sure it's pure baking soda and not baking powder (which sometimes has other ingredients.)

The dosing rate varies with each individual situation and all you're aiming for is to roughly try and get your pH up in the 8.0 to 8.4 range or just closer to that than what you were having, it's not important to be terribly detailed and bicarb will reach a ceiling of how high it can push the pH anyway, but it makes sense not to overdo it.

So I tell people to try a starting dose of 2 teaspoons per 50L (you'll have to work that out for what you think your water volume is) and consider that the range of reasonable dosing is somewhere between 1 and 3 teaspoons per 50L. (One teaspoon will, for example, be the level that usually raises your KH, but does not actually raise your pH, whereas 3 teaspoons might be rather high.)

The knowledge of and relationships of GH, KH and pH get rather complicated and you can do advanced searches of those with my forum name if you want to try and hunt down posts where I've gone on about it, but really the simple info I've given you here should take care of what you need at this stage. Good luck!

~~waterdrop~~

Brilliant. Im very grateful for yours and everyones advice. Everyone has been incredibly helpful and without all your good advice i think i would of given up by now.
Just one last question... When i go ahead and put the BiCarb in, will i hafta take out the carbon in my filter?

 

[waterdrop]

No, it's easy to get very confused by all the carbon discussions. Basically, carbon is just a filter media that is not ideal as a "biomedia" (biomedia being one of the 3 main classes of media types - biological, mechanical and chemical) and which often gets misunderstood by beginners with the matter not helped by the retailers who are trying to make money off of it.

Carbon is a "chemical" media and is actually an -optional- type of media. Experienced aquarists keep boxes of it on the shelf for emergencies and other uses but rarely bother to put in in their filters on a regular basis. It is used mainly for removal of medications, removal of yellow wood tannins and removal of organic odors of unknown origin that don't happen very often at all in your years in the hobby.

But, confusingly, it is -correct- that it can also serve as a (poor) biomedia and bacteria will populate it. It is considered poor because it constantly crumbles and breaks down and out go the bacteria with the water changes, albeit at a size you can't see.

Therefor, in your case, since you are still cycling, the best guide is to simply leave it be and get through the cycle without disturbance. Then months later you can deal with making a gradual transition, taking out a portion at a time and replacing it with a better biomedia. As far as the carbon's chemical capability, that is nearly always used up within 3 days and thereafter is not doing anything (this is the reason it would be so expensive to actually use it for chemical purposes on a regular basis.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SLIM]

No, it's easy to get very confused by all the carbon discussions. Basically, carbon is just a filter media that is not ideal as a "biomedia" (biomedia being one of the 3 main classes of media types - biological, mechanical and chemical) and which often gets misunderstood by beginners with the matter not helped by the retailers who are trying to make money off of it.

Carbon is a "chemical" media and is actually an -optional- type of media. Experienced aquarists keep boxes of it on the shelf for emergencies and other uses but rarely bother to put in in their filters on a regular basis. It is used mainly for removal of medications, removal of yellow wood tannins and removal of organic odors of unknown origin that don't happen very often at all in your years in the hobby.

But, confusingly, it is -correct- that it can also serve as a (poor) biomedia and bacteria will populate it. It is considered poor because it constantly crumbles and breaks down and out go the bacteria with the water changes, albeit at a size you can't see.

Therefor, in your case, since you are still cycling, the best guide is to simply leave it be and get through the cycle without disturbance. Then months later you can deal with making a gradual transition, taking out a portion at a time and replacing it with a better biomedia. As far as the carbon's chemical capability, that is nearly always used up within 3 days and thereafter is not doing anything (this is the reason it would be so expensive to actually use it for chemical purposes on a regular basis.)

~~waterdrop~~

Fantastic. Thanx again for the great advice, i feel confident again that im on the right path to a healthy fully cycled tank.
Thank you for your time and for answering my questions. You have been unbelievably helpful.

Paul

 

[waterdrop]

You're welcome Paul and I hope you will enjoy a long and fun time in the hobby. Remember, it's unlike many of the other things in our lives. It's not a race. It's not something where the fish swimming around are the only reward. There is a zen to understanding the processes. There is a zen to enjoying each little piece of your equipment and caring for it. There is a zen to cleaning your tank. There is a magic to learning the underlying sciences. I let the beautiful fish and plants be just the sparkling icing on the cake.

~~waterdrop~~
slow is good

 

[SLIM]

During a fishless cycle its not uncommon for the ph to drop...once you're up and running with fish in and with weekly w/c and tank maintainance the ph might not change at all.

It not good to add any buffers into the tank,has products like ph up & ph down can cause bad fluctuations on the ph which will stress fish more than having a steady ph.

I think it depends what your gh & kh readings are also,this affects the ph.

Short term use of bi carb whilst cycling will be fine has when you've finished your fishless you'll have to do a 100% w/c to clear out all the nitrate etc.
I'm not totally sure but i think its 1.5 tsp of bicarb of soda to 50 ltrs of water,let it settle then test the ph again,if its still low add another lot etc until its back up to around 8.0

Bicarb is available in most supermarkets by the baking area

Hi
I was jus lookin though your pics and your tank looks great. The sand looks amazing, much better than gravel. Much more natural!
How do you go about cleaning or hoovering sand? Doesnt it all get sucked up.

Paul

 

[SLIM]

Just thought i would give you all an update.
I used Bicarb in my tank and it work an absolute treat. It boosted my PH from 6.8 back up to 8.2 with no problems.
Im also very pleased to say i am 100% cycled now. The filter now easily cycles 4ppm of ammonia/Nitrites in 12 hours.
Its been a long hard ride but i got there in the end

Although i am fully cycled now im not actually planning on buying any fish just yet!
In 2 weeks il have the funds for my Juwel Vision 260ltr tank and my Fluval 405.... Plus a cool 3D background!
The plan is to carry on feeding my exsisting filter with ammonia to keep the bacteria strong, then move all the media from that filter (Fluval U2) to the new fuval 405. I know il probably go through another mini cycle as its a much larger water volume
(going from 60ltr to 260ltr) but it will definately be worth the wait in the end!

I just want to say a BIG thank you to EVERYONE who helped me, stuck with me and answered all my questions, i cant thank you all enough!!
Without you all i probably would of given up along time ago.
Joining the forum was probably the smartest and best thing i did during the cycle.

Thank you all again, il be back on soon with pics as soon as the new tank is up running and cycled with fishes