Fish Stocking

[Ri-Za]

Hi guys,

I have recently bought a roma 125 and had it cycling for quite a while now and all my readings seem fine so I was thinking about which fish to get. Also, I do have quite a few plants in there which I shall try and upload a pic of soon!
Originally I wanted to get some electric blue rams but they seemed quite difficult so I would like to get some german blue rams once my tank is fully set up as they aren't the best fish to get straight away. I was considering getting a brisstlenose plec and neon tetra as well but obviously these aren't really hardy enough to start my tank off with.
Essentially, what would you recommend to get for my first fish? Also numbers etc.

Many thanks

 

[Mowbz]

You could have a huge range in there, litterally hundreds to chose from.

Perhaps go and pick out 20 fish that you like the look of, pop back, and we'll let you know what will/wont work.

Also, you say your tank has been cycling for "some time now" and the readings "seem fine". Cycling varies in time, from a few days to a few months in worst cases. You're only considered fully cycled once you can get 4-5ppm of Ammonia processed inside 12 hours, with double zero readings for both Ammonia and Nitrite after (Nitrate not a problem).

 

[Ri-Za]

Well, what I was originally considering was getting;

German blue rams - 2 (probably 2 females as I don't want to have any breeding and males would fight together - is this correct?)
Neon/Cardinal tetra - 8-10 (should be enough for shoaling)
Bristlenose plec - 1
Ideally I would need some sort of hardy fish to start the tank off, possibly platys which I quite liked the look of.
Although I do like the look of black neon tetra and they are relatively hardy, could I have a shoal of these as well?
Although, would it be possible to have GBR and electric blue rams together?

 

[KittyKat]

I have recently bought a roma 125 and had it cycling for quite a while now and all my readings seem fine so I was thinking about which fish to get. Also, I do have quite a few plants in there which I shall try and upload a pic of soon!

Also, you say your tank has been cycling for "some time now" and the readings "seem fine". Cycling varies in time, from a few days to a few months in worst cases. You're only considered fully cycled once you can get 4-5ppm of Ammonia processed inside 12 hours, with double zero readings for both Ammonia and Nitrite after (Nitrate not a problem).

Yes, please elaborate.. readings are "fine" when ammonia is being completely processed to nitrate within 12 hours.

Originally I wanted to get some electric blue rams but they seemed quite difficult so I would like to get some german blue rams once my tank is fully set up as they aren't the best fish to get straight away. I was considering getting a brisstlenose plec and neon tetra as well but obviously these aren't really hardy enough to start my tank off with.
Essentially, what would you recommend to get for my first fish? Also numbers etc.

"Electric" blue rams and "German" blue rams are the same species, which is why it is silly to call them anything other than "blue rams" or "Mikrogeophagus ramirezi". The ones labeled as "German" (and there is nothing German about them, it's no different from calling a guppy from an Asian farm "British guppy") are wild-type colours; "electric" are a line bred, cyan colour morph. The only difference is that one is very inbred, the other one is not quite so much.
If you do decide that you want to keep blue rams, you will need to consider the following:

• They are "earth eaters", so should have fine sand
• They do best in soft, acidic water, preferably a blackwater environment (i.e. add bogwood and let it leach tannins into the water)
• Do best with dithers

So for a tank that size, I would be looking at moderately planted and with the following stock:

• pair of blue rams
• 10-15 medium tetras of one species like cardinals OR 15-25 small tetras of one species like ember or neon tetras
• 1-3 small plecos (adult size under 4", you will need 1 cave per pleco + 1-2 spare) OR 10 Corys of one species

If you cycle properly and your water quality is good and you get your fish from a reliable seller, neons should be fine from the start. If you consider neons to not be suitable for a new set-up, then blue rams and Corys are not suitable either.

 

[KittyKat]

German blue rams - 2 (probably 2 females as I don't want to have any breeding and males would fight together - is this correct?)

It is better to keep them in pairs, or the colours won't be that great. Don't worry about breeding, the tetras and pleco will take care of that. Two females are just as likely to fight as two males, in my experience.

Neon/Cardinal tetra - 8-10 (should be enough for shoaling)

Minimum for shoaling.. in the wild, shoals contain 100s-10000s of fish, so the bigger the shoal you have, the better. That tank should allow you to have 10-15 fish.

Ideally I would need some sort of hardy fish to start the tank off, possibly platys which I quite liked the look of.

If you are properly fish-less cycling your tank, why do you want to start with a different species? Also, rams and tetras do best in quite different water from platys.

Although I do like the look of black neon tetra and they are relatively hardy, could I have a shoal of these as well?

It is better to keep only one mid-water schooler as your tank is not big enough for two decent sized schools.

Although, would it be possible to have GBR and electric blue rams together?

Yes, although the electric colour morph is more inbred than the wild-type colour morph from a good breeder, so you are more likely to see health problems with them.

 

[Ri-Za]

I would definitely like to have blue rams at some stage of my tank and I do have sand and bogwood in my tank along with plants to help them out and feel more at home.

I have heard a lot of people say that neon tetras don't make a very good hardy fish to start off with which was why I was a bit dubious about having them.

So I am tempted to go with the following;

2 blue rams
15-20 neon tetras
and 1 small plec

What do you think? What would be the best to add first and how many?

 

[KittyKat]

I would definitely like to have blue rams at some stage of my tank and I do have sand and bogwood in my tank along with plants to help them out and feel more at home.

How many plants are you going to start with?

I have heard a lot of people say that neon tetras don't make a very good hardy fish to start off with which was why I was a bit dubious about having them.

In my experience, that depends on whether you buy good stock or not, whether you provide a good environment to start off with or not. In practice, the biggest difference between a new tank and an established tank should be the amount of plants. If there is a difference in the water quality or filter bacteria stability, then the filter was probably not cycled properly.

So I am tempted to go with the following;

2 blue rams
15-20 neon tetras
and 1 small plec

What do you think? What would be the best to add first and how many?

How much ammonia is being processed in 12 hours and what is the pH right now?

I think that stocking plan is realistic and I like it. If the tank is processing 4-5 ppm of ammonia completely into nitrate within 12 hours, has been doing that reliably for at least 7 days and you plan to plant it before adding the fish, I think it is safe to stock 10 neons, 2 rams and a baby pleco to start. But there are a lot of "if"s there, which you need to help me with and you *must* have anti-whitestop medication before you buy the fish as shop bought rams are rarely from good stock. I would then add 3-5 tetras per week, starting about 2-3 weeks after first stock.

 

[Mowbz]

You talk about about these "Stages" of your tank. I dont get it? You say you are doing a fishless cycle, but are planning "to get some hardy fish to start the tank off"

I dont get it.....?

And as above, if you could post the last 10 days of your log, we ( i say we, i mostly mean Kitty ) can help with the if's and when a little more.

 

[Essjay22 137]

Ri-Za, how have you been cycling your tank? Have you been adding ammonia, or possibly fish food, and monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels daily? Or have you just been letting your tank run without adding anything?

If you could tell us what method you have been using for cycling, it will help us answer your questions.

 

[Ri-Za]

I have been adding ammonia to cycle my tank and been checking the ammonia, nitrite etc levels on a daily basis. Today the ammonia and nitrite were 0 and have been for 4 day now.
I am a bit dubious about adding neon tetras though as my first fish as a lot of people have said that they don't survive if added first which is worrying
The tank is processing about 5 ppm of ammonia regularly over 12 hours.
My ph is currently at 7.4 which is slightly higher than possibly needed for the fish that I am interested in.

 

[TheRedDarren]

German blue rams - 2 (probably 2 females as I don't want to have any breeding and males would fight together - is this correct?)

It is better to keep them in pairs, or the colours won't be that great. Don't worry about breeding, the tetras and pleco will take care of that. Two females are just as likely to fight as two males, in my experience.


What do you mean the tetra's and plec will take care of that?

 

[KittyKat]

I have been adding ammonia to cycle my tank and been checking the ammonia, nitrite etc levels on a daily basis. Today the ammonia and nitrite were 0 and have been for 4 day now.
I am a bit dubious about adding neon tetras though as my first fish as a lot of people have said that they don't survive if added first which is worrying
The tank is processing about 5 ppm of ammonia regularly over 12 hours.
My ph is currently at 7.4 which is slightly higher than possibly needed for the fish that I am interested in.

That should be fine for the stocking level I suggested. It is up to you which fish you go for, but as I explained, there is very little difference between a new tank and an established tank.. but also, rams are known to be "sensitive" to the same things neons are.
I recommend that you do a large water change a couple of days before you get the fish, reduce dosing to 1 ppm (at night) for the last couple of days plant right after that water change and add some bogwood: that will start the pH dropping.

German blue rams - 2 (probably 2 females as I don't want to have any breeding and males would fight together - is this correct?)

It is better to keep them in pairs, or the colours won't be that great. Don't worry about breeding, the tetras and pleco will take care of that.

What do you mean the tetra's and plec will take care of that?

The tetras and pleco will either eat the eggs or the tetras will eat the fry.

 

[Ri-Za]

Thanks for that

I still need to buy some bogwood from somewhere but all of my local lfs don't seem to have anything great...typical! Any suggestions?
I will possibly get some neons to begin with at the weekend then if I can find some bogwood and my water parameters stay constant.

 

[KittyKat]

I still need to buy some bogwood from somewhere but all of my local lfs don't seem to have anything great...typical! Any suggestions?
I will possibly get some neons to begin with at the weekend then if I can find some bogwood and my water parameters stay constant.

Which side of the pond are you on? eBay is usually a reliable choice, but you want to be buying new wood, not second hand, so that it does release tannins. If you stock on Saturday, you probably want to water change, plant and add wood on Thursday.