Fish Starting To Die Help

[Guppy7971]

Hello all, we have just introduced 1 fighting fish and 9 neon tetras to our new 70 litre tank. This tank has been going for a week without any fish. After day 4 water in the tank became very cloudy, which I thought was bateria bloom but did not know how this could happen as there was nothing in the tank for the bacteria to feed on. I have read all topics about recycle etc. Last night seen fighting fish attack 1 tetra and now is dead... After watching closer what is happening is a tetra will swim like it is drunk (on its back upside down) the fighting fish will see this and then will atack which finishes the tetra off. The fighting fish has no interest in the healthy tetras. Please see below water tests can't see anything wrong, please help.


Temp 76
No3 0
No2 0
GH 8
KH 6.8
PH 7.6
CL2 0
Nh3/Nh4 0

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Some Bettas do not mix well with small schooling fish, sounds like yours is one of those. Ultimately, you may have to choose between keeping the Neons or the Betta, taking the other(s) back to the store. If you keep the Betta, you could try some Corydoras catfish (most stay on the tank floor, well out of the way of Bettas), but only when you know for sure that your tank is "cycled" and has been for at least six weeks.

How are you testing the water? Test strips are known to give very dodgy results and as you seem to be "fish in cycling" a liquid test kit is a must. If you have not got a liquid test kit now, I would do a 50% water change ASAP and then do a minimum daily 25% water change until you have one.

A "fishless cycle" can easily take more than six weeks, but "fish in cycling" can take much longer to get enough bacteria for the number of fish you have and at the same time you need to ensure ammonia/nitrite levels never exceed 0.25mg/l. Simply filling a new tank with dechlorinated water and doing nothing else will not help get the tank safe for fish, the initial bacteria need food in the way of ammonia, which produce nitrites that are food for the other essential bacteria.

 

[Guppy7971]

Some Bettas do not mix well with small schooling fish, sounds like yours is one of those. Ultimately, you may have to choose between keeping the Neons or the Betta, taking the other(s) back to the store. If you keep the Betta, you could try some Corydoras catfish (most stay on the tank floor, well out of the way of Bettas), but only when you know for sure that your tank is "cycled" and has been for at least six weeks.

How are you testing the water? Test strips are known to give very dodgy results and as you seem to be "fish in cycling" a liquid test kit is a must. If you have not got a liquid test kit now, I would do a 50% water change ASAP and then do a minimum daily 25% water change until you have one.

A "fishless cycle" can easily take more than six weeks, but "fish in cycling" can take much longer to get enough bacteria for the number of fish you have and at the same time you need to ensure ammonia/nitrite levels never exceed 0.25mg/l. Simply filling a new tank with dechlorinated water and doing nothing else will not help get the tank safe for fish, the initial bacteria need food in the way of ammonia, which produce nitrites that are food for the other essential bacteria.

Many thanks for your quick response, all the above tests were produced with test strip apart from the amonia test, I have just bought some chemical tests for ph and Nitrate ph is showing 7.5 and Nitrate 0 did Nitrate test twice to make sure. Will keep a close eye on the fish and will remove Betta if problem continues, still don't know why tank is getting more cloudy, everything was cleaned before putting in tank, can't be bacteria bloom?

 

[Essjay]

Yes it can be a bacterial bloom. The bacteria that cause the bloom are not the ones we want to grow in the filter. The 'bloom' bacteria feed off organic matter - which includes chemicals in the sealant of new tanks, and in new plastic things in your tank (eg the filter casing). It should go away by itself. Cloudiness can also be caused by not washing the gravel or sand properly - this should also go away as it settles out.

As others have said, you are now doing a fish-in cycle, so the best thing you can do is read this to find out how to stop any more fish dying http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/

 

[Guppy7971]

Yes it can be a bacterial bloom. The bacteria that cause the bloom are not the ones we want to grow in the filter. The 'bloom' bacteria feed off organic matter - which includes chemicals in the sealant of new tanks, and in new plastic things in your tank (eg the filter casing). It should go away by itself. Cloudiness can also be caused by not washing the gravel or sand properly - this should also go away as it settles out.

As others have said, you are now doing a fish-in cycle, so the best thing you can do is read this to find out how to stop any more fish dying http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/

Many thanks for the help.....I started writing a long post installed the spell check and I lost my post, quick tip, install spell check first or copy text you are writing before installing.... OK now short version. Taken Betta back to shop, again noticed dead fish in shop, bought four guppy's one male three females and replaced dead neons. Tonight one tetra about to die symptoms color of red tale starts to fade tetra leaves other fish and goes to corner little twitch breathes heavy falls to bottom upside down then dies other fish are OK, noticed pregnant guppy scratched belly on gravel.. Please help did ten percent water change all chemicals OK.

 

[Guppy7971]

OK had another two fish die today, did all chemical tests and they are fine. As a drastic measure I decided to do an 80 percent water change (so much for the fish in cycle) as I was siphoning the old water into the bucket I noticed that bubbles started appearing at the top of the water similar to washing up liquid...Which reminded me that I caught my child putting the entire arm in the fish tank. I can only guess after washing hands with liquid soap and then putting them in the tank has caused this problem? Do I need to another 80 percent change tomorrow?

 

[AshP1986]

You need to do AT LEAST a 50% water change for the next few days until the guppy stops flashing. Hopefully the fresh water will stop the flashing, however if not you may need to medicate.

When you do a water change make sure you dechlorinate BEFORE you add the water to your tank. Also, if you are using a bucket to transfer water make sure it has not been washed with chemicals. The best way to do this is to go to a dollar store/walmart/drug store, something like that, buy a brand new bucket and rinse it with clean water. TA-DA, a perfect fish bucket.

Are you using test strips to test your ammonia?
What are your plans for the guppy fry?
Do you have a way to test nitrIte and nitrAte?

You need to do AT LEAST a 50% water change for the next few days until the guppy stops flashing. Hopefully the fresh water will stop the flashing, however if not you may need to medicate.

When you do a water change make sure you dechlorinate BEFORE you add the water to your tank. Also, if you are using a bucket to transfer water make sure it has not been washed with chemicals. The best way to do this is to go to a dollar store/walmart/drug store, something like that, buy a brand new bucket and rinse it with clean water. TA-DA, a perfect fish bucket.

Are you using test strips to test your ammonia?
What are your plans for the guppy fry?
Do you have a way to test nitrIte and nitrAte?

OK had another two fish die today, did all chemical tests and they are fine. As a drastic measure I decided to do an 80 percent water change (so much for the fish in cycle) as I was siphoning the old water into the bucket I noticed that bubbles started appearing at the top of the water similar to washing up liquid...Which reminded me that I caught my child putting the entire arm in the fish tank. I can only guess after washing hands with liquid soap and then putting them in the tank has caused this problem? Do I need to another 80 percent change tomorrow?

This changes things... but I am not sure how to answer your question...

Doing massive water changes is still part of a fish in cycle. As long as you aren't messing with the filter you will be fine. The water only dilutes the amount of ammonia to help the fish be more comfortable. It will still help your filter grow good bacteria(Which is why you should never just simply change a filter, you need to prep a new filter if the old is falling apart so that it has good bacteria or you could put your tank through another cycle

 

[Guppy7971]

Just a quick update, water changes have worked fish are now normal after loosing another few because of the original problem, although my neon tetras are slowly dying one by one, have looked at symptoms and it seems they have "Nebelievera disease" which I belive you can not treet.... I will stop buying fish from the same pet store as the other fish from a different source are fine.. Will this spread to the other fish as one of my guppies gave birth; managed to save 20 fry, placed them in birthing tank within the same tank.. I check all chemicals on a regular basis I have compared test strips with chemical tests and they show same readings.. As regards to Guppy fry will grow on and keep the best and will give remaining to pet store...

 

[AshP1986]

I would just recommend being very attentive to your tank for the next few weeks to make sure nothing weird pops up...

Good luck with the babies! My first drop are 4months I only have 5 that made it but they are looking good!

 

[Rummynose]

I'm thinking it mayt be better to place the guppy fry in a 5 gallon tank by themselves seeing as the 20 gallon is going through the cycling process. A water change in a small tank is done very quickly, but if they remain in the 20 gallon they may be exposed to too much ammonia to keep them well!

 

[AshP1986]

I suppose I can see your point rummy as my fry have been moved to a 1 gallon, but with no mature media in there either he will have to do daily water changes to not stunt the fry's growth. Perhaps this is why only 5 from the first drop made it.