Fish Problem Help?

[Messonaldo]

So I did a mistake by adding 3 neon tetras to my 10 gallon today.The fish tank was not cycled.One of the tetras died within a few hours.So now I have 2 neon tetras in my tank.Im afraid the fish will die from not having enough other neon tetras.So now I'm in a predicament.Ive come to the conclusion that I have to do a fish in cycle.I was planning on getting 3 tetras today and some more later on to prevent too much bio load.I did some research and found out that neons are very sensitive and won't produce enough ammonia for the bacteria to establish.So now I'm left with 2 neon tetras in my tank and I have no idea what to do.I was planning on adding a cycling fish.But I was told not to do that by an employee at my LFS.What should I do?Should I add more neon tetras?

 

[Byron]

First, we should know your water parameters. This refers to hardness, pH and temperature, but it is the hardness and pH we are concerned with here as you can easily control the temperature. The GH (general hardness, or total hardness) is most important, but it is also worth knowing the KH (carbonate hardness, or Alkalinity), and the pH. If you are on municipal water, check their website for this data, or you can contact them on workdays.

Do you have any live plants in this tank? This has an effect on cycling.

While your tank is obviously not cycled, which refers to the establishment of the nitrifying bacteria to handle the ammonia, then nitrite, it is unlikely that this alone killed the neon within a couple hours. So something else may be factoring in as well. But the cycle is still an important issue to be dealt with. Before recommending neons or other fish, the parameters need to be known, as we could be only making things worse if the water is, say, hard, while the neons need soft water.

As for cycling, your best bet if fish are present is to use a bacterial supplement like Tetra's SafeStart or a similar product called Dr. Tim's One and Only if you can get either at a local fish store. Either of these, with only a couple of fish, will get you through this. If the fish all die and you do not get more, and I strongly recommend you not get any more until this is well sorted out, cycling following the instructions in the "Cycle Your Tank" section of this forum is your best bet.

On the neon death(s), how did you acclimate the fish to the tank water?

Byron.

 

[Messonaldo]

I acclimated my neons by floating for about 20 minutes.And then put the fish in a separate container with the a little bit of the LFS water.And I slowly added water from my tank into the container.I forgot to mention that I did add tetra safe start 15 min before I added the fish.Im just worried that the neons aren't producing enough ammonia for the bacteria.

 

[Byron]

I acclimated my neons by floating for about 20 minutes.And then put the fish in a separate container with the a little bit of the LFS water.And I slowly added water from my tank into the container.I forgot to mention that I did add tetra safe start 15 min before I added the fish.Im just worried that the neons aren't producing enough ammonia for the bacteria.

The death of the neon(s) is not related to cycling in my opinion, given your information. Which is why I asked about other things like acclimation and parameters. We still need to know the latter.

SafeStart, with three small neons in a 10g, will deal with cycling. You probably won't see ammonia or nitrite in tests (you shouldn't, anyway, with SS and so few fish) but the bacteria will still establish. So as far as I am concerned, the issue is not cycling, and that will occur with SS and future fish added slowly.

Which brings us back to the sudden death(s)...the one fish might have been injured (netting fish can do this very easily), diseased initially, a genetic problem, etc. Are the other two alive, and behaving relatively normally? They need cover, this is not an open water species and open tanks will stress them.

 

[Messonaldo]

The other two are behaving quite well.Swimmig quite actively.I have a couple silk plants,driftwood,and a cave.However when i get near the tank,the neons tend to hide in the plants.Which I'm pretty sure it's normal because they're adjusting to their environment.Been about a day and waiting to feed them tomorrow if they will eat.

 

[Byron]

The other two are behaving quite well.Swimmig quite actively.I have a couple silk plants,driftwood,and a cave.However when i get near the tank,the neons tend to hide in the plants.Which I'm pretty sure it's normal because they're adjusting to their environment.Been about a day and waiting to feed them tomorrow if they will eat.

If the two remain alive and seem basically normal (hiding is a fear response because there are only two and the new environment) you could go ahead and add the rest of the shoal, however many you intend of this species. This is only a 10g tank, but a group of 10 neons would look very lovely, and you could consider a substrate species to fill up the tank.

Now, you still haven't given us the parameters, so if you have hardish water the neons are not going to do well long-term. Now is the time to sort this out, before getting more of them.

 

[Messonaldo]

Nitrate:0
Nitrite:0
Hardness:75
Chlorine:0
Alkalinity:40
pH:7.2

 

[Byron]

Nitrate:0
Nitrite:0
Hardness:75
Chlorine:0
Alkalinity:40
pH:7.2

If the unit of measurement for the GH and Alkalinity (KH) is ppm or the equivalent mg/l, this is fine. You have soft water. Neons no problem.

 

[Messonaldo]

Yeah sorry my bad,yes it's 75 GH and 40 ppm.So what should my plan of action be next?Add more neons in a couple of days?Weeks?

 

[Byron]

Yeah sorry my bad,yes it's 75 GH and 40 ppm.So what should my plan of action be next?Add more neons in a couple of days?Weeks?

I would only want to ensure the two neons are OK, and then add to the group, so I gues a couple days. Add whatever you intend at one time. Use the Safe Start when you add them if you have it opened. You mentioned live plants so this is not really necessary (the SafeStart) if you don't have any left, but it won't hurt if you do. Once opened it should be used up anyway. Plants need nitrogen and they take up ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source, and they can use a lot of it. With small fish like neons, you will not have any cycling issues.

 

[Messonaldo]

Ok thank you so much!

 

[Messonaldo]

I would only want to ensure the two neons are OK, and then add to the group, so I gues a couple days. Add whatever you intend at one time. Use the Safe Start when you add them if you have it opened. You mentioned live plants so this is not really necessary (the SafeStart) if you don't have any left, but it won't hurt if you do. Once opened it should be used up anyway. Plants need nitrogen and they take up ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source, and they can use a lot of it. With small fish like neons, you will not have any cycling issues.

Bad News.One of the 2 remaining tetras has died.Im not sure why.Checked the water parameters and everything was fine.No ammonia,no chlorine,etc.I woke up this morning to check on them and one of them was lying dead on the bottom of the tank.Now I'm worried about the last neon in my tank.Help

 

[Byron]

Bad News.One of the 2 remaining tetras has died.Im not sure why.Checked the water parameters and everything was fine.No ammonia,no chlorine,etc.I woke up this morning to check on them and one of them was lying dead on the bottom of the tank.Now I'm worried about the last neon in my tank.Help

Ascertaining fish problems is very difficult. I am still confidant that this is not cycle-related (your zero ammonia supports this as well).

One thing to do is check with the neons in the store tank. See (may have to ask them) if any have died. If yes, it would suggest the fish themselves may be the issue. All sorts of things can impact a fish, resulting in death days, even weeks later. Injuries during transport, injuries from netting, shock/stress (this is monumental for any fish being transported/bagged/netted). Generic problems. Shock from different water parameters without sufficient acclimation (by the store, as well as home).

Characins by their nature are highly sensitive to almost everything, particular water-related (parameters, additives, etc).

Having a larger group acquired together does help mitigate some of this, because it reduces stress and provides for a faster acclimation to a new environment. That won't help if the fish are otherwise diseased or injured of course, but if you stay with neons, or any shoaling fish, acquire the intended number together.

I've only given guides here, I cannot diagnose the specific issue. I would check with the store though; most will replace fish that die so quickly, though they may want a water sample, but that is fine. And if their neons are also dying off, I would certainly not acquire any of them.

 

[Messonaldo]

Ascertaining fish problems is very difficult. I am still confidant that this is not cycle-related (your zero ammonia supports this as well).

One thing to do is check with the neons in the store tank. See (may have to ask them) if any have died. If yes, it would suggest the fish themselves may be the issue. All sorts of things can impact a fish, resulting in death days, even weeks later. Injuries during transport, injuries from netting, shock/stress (this is monumental for any fish being transported/bagged/netted). Generic problems. Shock from different water parameters without sufficient acclimation (by the store, as well as home).

Characins by their nature are highly sensitive to almost everything, particular water-related (parameters, additives, etc).

Having a larger group acquired together does help mitigate some of this, because it reduces stress and provides for a faster acclimation to a new environment. That won't help if the fish are otherwise diseased or injured of course, but if you stay with neons, or any shoaling fish, acquire the intended number together.

I've only given guides here, I cannot diagnose the specific issue. I would check with the store though; most will replace fish that die so quickly, though they may want a water sample, but that is fine. And if their neons are also dying off, I would certainly not acquire any of them.

Well the 3rd fish has now died...I believe I've found out the problem.The water parameters were fine.When I came home from work,I found my last fish stuck to the grate of my internal filter.It was stuck on there and I quickly ran to pull him off the grate.But I was too late,the fish had died.3 fish dead in just a few days.Idk what to do now.Theres no way to control the filter.What should I do?

 

[Byron]

Well the 3rd fish has now died...I believe I've found out the problem.The water parameters were fine.When I came home from work,I found my last fish stuck to the grate of my internal filter.It was stuck on there and I quickly ran to pull him off the grate.But I was too late,the fish had died.3 fish dead in just a few days.Idk what to do now.Theres no way to control the filter.What should I do?

The filter is unlikely to have been the problem. I would suspect either the fish had problems already, or there was something in the acclimation. And here, by acclimation I mean the water parameters, water condition, how the fish were caught/netted/bagged/released. I know some of this has been discussed previously, but it is still a possible. And I would check with the state of the fish in the store--tell them your three have died, see if their fish are doing similar.

Another aspect is how long the fish have been in the store. Fish arriving from the fish farm/breeder are under extreme stress, and if we then buy them within a few days, we are subjecting them to more severe stress. There are delicate species that I insist remain in the store at least a week, sometimes longer, before I will acquire them. I'd rather they either died in the store or settled down fairly well, before they are subjected to additional stress.