ricko10
Fish Fanatic
I was just wondering if any air lines allow you to take fish on with you from the uk to ireland?
Fish On Flights
- Thread starter ricko10
- Start date
helterskelter
Livebearer Specilest
Not had luggage!!!!! Not With terrorist measures ATM.
If you do you firstly need an import licence from Ireland and then a airline that will allow you to ship fish in your luggage.
Then box them well for the flight as it can get very cold.
also add one drop of ammo lock to each bag of fish with NO oxygen as the two react and kill fish.
If you do you firstly need an import licence from Ireland and then a airline that will allow you to ship fish in your luggage.
Then box them well for the flight as it can get very cold.
also add one drop of ammo lock to each bag of fish with NO oxygen as the two react and kill fish.
Tommy Gun
Fish Crazy
I agree on the troubles you might have with trying to get any sort of liquid on an airplane these days, but...
helterskelter,
I was wondering if you could elaborate on the fact that ammo lock and air are a toxic combination. I am not asking because I disgaree with you since this is pretty much news to me, but rather because I would have some serious doubts that any fish that is kept in a bag for an extended period of time would die without the oxygen. My reasoning for thinking that is simply because when I was running Co2 on a previously planted tank, just a slightly miscalculated adjustment of the Co2 soleniod would lead to every single one of my fish coming to the surface for air in what I felt was an amazingly short period of time - hence, I figured the lack of O2 in the bag would result in the same thing. Granted, in my tank I could easily control the amount of gas exchange that was occuring, however, it seems as though the oxygen must have escaped and/or been depleted quickly.
I also wonder why ammo lock wouldn't cause the same sort of effect on an aquarium....especially those with a relatively tight fitting lid since that might be just like the bag scenario, only on a larger scale because it doesn't really remove the ammonia, but only helps 'transform' that ammonia into its less-toxic form of ammonium -- the keywords being 'less' and 'toxic' together. So, my advice would be more along the lines of, if you are going to and can take the fish with you, place it in the largest bag possible, with a lot of airspace at the top and skip adding the ammo lock and/or similar product. However, I could be completely wrong on that, I suppose.
I guess my point here is that I can easily see how there would be a 'race' between a lack of oxygen versus a fatal level of ammonia regarding which would result in the fish's death first --- and my money is on the lack of oxygen...especially if the fish was without significant levels of O2 for a large portion of being transported in the bag for so long that ammonia can accumulate that much. Certainly that much water cannot hold enough dissolved oxygen on its on own to last forever on a few hours long journey. In fact, I remember my brother telling me that when he decided to trade in some very large cichlids that he inherited from his room mate, the fish were already gasping at the top of the water before he drove the 3 or 4 miles from his house to my parents and he was transporting them in a big 10 gallon bucket with no lid on it at all. A few even died, including the one I wanted to trade him for.
While it is a less-than-educated guess, I would think that perhaps the ammo lock is simply uneffective and/or hazardous in the case of a fish being in a bag because
helterskelter,
I was wondering if you could elaborate on the fact that ammo lock and air are a toxic combination. I am not asking because I disgaree with you since this is pretty much news to me, but rather because I would have some serious doubts that any fish that is kept in a bag for an extended period of time would die without the oxygen. My reasoning for thinking that is simply because when I was running Co2 on a previously planted tank, just a slightly miscalculated adjustment of the Co2 soleniod would lead to every single one of my fish coming to the surface for air in what I felt was an amazingly short period of time - hence, I figured the lack of O2 in the bag would result in the same thing. Granted, in my tank I could easily control the amount of gas exchange that was occuring, however, it seems as though the oxygen must have escaped and/or been depleted quickly.
I also wonder why ammo lock wouldn't cause the same sort of effect on an aquarium....especially those with a relatively tight fitting lid since that might be just like the bag scenario, only on a larger scale because it doesn't really remove the ammonia, but only helps 'transform' that ammonia into its less-toxic form of ammonium -- the keywords being 'less' and 'toxic' together. So, my advice would be more along the lines of, if you are going to and can take the fish with you, place it in the largest bag possible, with a lot of airspace at the top and skip adding the ammo lock and/or similar product. However, I could be completely wrong on that, I suppose.
I guess my point here is that I can easily see how there would be a 'race' between a lack of oxygen versus a fatal level of ammonia regarding which would result in the fish's death first --- and my money is on the lack of oxygen...especially if the fish was without significant levels of O2 for a large portion of being transported in the bag for so long that ammonia can accumulate that much. Certainly that much water cannot hold enough dissolved oxygen on its on own to last forever on a few hours long journey. In fact, I remember my brother telling me that when he decided to trade in some very large cichlids that he inherited from his room mate, the fish were already gasping at the top of the water before he drove the 3 or 4 miles from his house to my parents and he was transporting them in a big 10 gallon bucket with no lid on it at all. A few even died, including the one I wanted to trade him for.
While it is a less-than-educated guess, I would think that perhaps the ammo lock is simply uneffective and/or hazardous in the case of a fish being in a bag because
The-Wolf
Ex-LFS manager/ keeper of over 30 danio species
no need to use ammo lock, a tablespoon of zeolite in the bag will be more than sufficient.
if you are importing to Northern Ireland from the mainland UK you do not need a licence
however if you are importing to the Republic of Ireland you will need one.
this can be obtained from DEFRA (http
/www.defra.gov.uk/), if you are a UK resident or
the Dept of Agriculture & Food (http/www.agriculture.gov.ie/) if you are an Irish republic resident
if you are importing to Northern Ireland from the mainland UK you do not need a licence
however if you are importing to the Republic of Ireland you will need one.
this can be obtained from DEFRA (http
/www.defra.gov.uk/), if you are a UK resident or the Dept of Agriculture & Food (http
/www.agriculture.gov.ie/) if you are an Irish republic resident
helterskelter
Livebearer Specilest
Ok i don't know the science behind it. However mixing ammo lock and pure oxygen has a chemical reaction that results in the death of the fish. I've spoken to a large number of people who ship fish all over the world and all say the same.
It would be interesting know what dose happen though.
The race between CO2 and Oxygen is not a major problem if you bagging one fish to a bag and at least two thirds air to water mix.
When fish collection or taking to long weekends this way you can keep fish in a bag for 3-4 days (remembering to use ammo lock) and their is no harm to the fish, when collecting in the wild you do have to change the air and give a water change if you their for 2 weeks or so.
My experance here is with small fish which don't have a massive DO (Dissolved Oxygen) demand, course as fish get larger and also depending on their psephology their DO demands change, I used to ship Trout live all over the UK and these are very difficult having to keep a DO level of around 7.5-8.5 ml/g any less would resualt in major problems.
It would be interesting know what dose happen though.
The race between CO2 and Oxygen is not a major problem if you bagging one fish to a bag and at least two thirds air to water mix.
When fish collection or taking to long weekends this way you can keep fish in a bag for 3-4 days (remembering to use ammo lock) and their is no harm to the fish, when collecting in the wild you do have to change the air and give a water change if you their for 2 weeks or so.
My experance here is with small fish which don't have a massive DO (Dissolved Oxygen) demand, course as fish get larger and also depending on their psephology their DO demands change, I used to ship Trout live all over the UK and these are very difficult having to keep a DO level of around 7.5-8.5 ml/g any less would resualt in major problems.
Tommy Gun
Fish Crazy
Makes more sense I suppose....obviously we aren't putting pure oxygen in a bag with fish...or at least I have yet to hear/see that being done. Couldn't smoke around it either then I believe.
I kind of doubt the 'days' part of that, unless you were to open the bag up once in a while, but I can understand what you mean....I had thought you said to make sure that there is absolutely no oxygen in the bag but must have misread that.
helterskelter
Livebearer Specilest
lol no normal air is perfect if i had said no air then it would be a problem unless your using breather bags.
and as for days yes you can unless it's a fish that need extreamly high oxygen demand.
Eaxmple last weekend i took 25 pairs of fish to derby for a auction (150 miles away)
fish was bagged thursday night, shipped friday left in a heated ploy box in the dark till sunday
Fish was then inspected and added to the auction. most was then taken home that night and setteled in, how ever some people stayed till monday before going home
This happens all over the world at hobbiest fish auction and been doing this my self for over 10 years
like i said befor though 1 fish to a bag and ammo lock and their fine for 4 days before you need to change air and water.
and as for days yes you can unless it's a fish that need extreamly high oxygen demand.
Eaxmple last weekend i took 25 pairs of fish to derby for a auction (150 miles away)
fish was bagged thursday night, shipped friday left in a heated ploy box in the dark till sunday
Fish was then inspected and added to the auction. most was then taken home that night and setteled in, how ever some people stayed till monday before going home
This happens all over the world at hobbiest fish auction and been doing this my self for over 10 years
like i said befor though 1 fish to a bag and ammo lock and their fine for 4 days before you need to change air and water.
Tommy Gun
Fish Crazy
Not to keep heading off topic here, but I just wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't possible...while I have yet to ship anything, I have order livestock online and it has taken two or three days to get here; and still arriving alive.
One other quick question though...
helterskelter said:
...you are right, you didn't say no air, but no oxygen (two term which many people might exchange without discretion); are you saying that sometimes it would be common or acceptable to actually pump oxygen into a bag - so long as no ammo lock is not present?
Like I pointed out before though, I would think the ammo lock idea is somewhat sketchy at best because it really doesn't remove ammonia, and so in the even more 'closed' system of a plastic bag (in relation to an aquarium) with a tiny amount of water in it...which is not to say I am doubting you at all, since I don't, but only to place some doubt on the need or usefulness of adding ammo lock to the bag...if that makes any sense.
helterskelter
Livebearer Specilest
Ok it should be "pure oxygen" i guess.
Your correct it can only lock a specific amount away before ammonia is left, this is why i did you should do a air and water change after 3-4 days
The reason did not say this in my first post was coz a flight between uk to ireland is only around an hour or so.
However if needing to travel longer periods it's fine if you know what your doing and you know the demands of the fish your shipping.
Your correct it can only lock a specific amount away before ammonia is left, this is why i did you should do a air and water change after 3-4 days
The reason did not say this in my first post was coz a flight between uk to ireland is only around an hour or so.
However if needing to travel longer periods it's fine if you know what your doing and you know the demands of the fish your shipping.
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