Fish-in Cycle

[beccalovely]

Yep very true, am cycling my 4' with ammonia at the mo, and it's a lot less stressful!

 

[beccalovely]

Ok so things continue in the same way, although I'm now only getting 0.25 readings for ammonia and nitrite each day, with 50% water changes that reduce that back down to zero.

Might do a nitrate test soon... maybe I'm just being hopeful though!

 

[snazy]

Ok so things continue in the same way, although I'm now only getting 0.25 readings for ammonia and nitrite each day, with 50% water changes that reduce that back down to zero.

Might do a nitrate test soon... maybe I'm just being hopeful though!

If you have a 0.25 ammonia and 0.25 nitrIte reading, then 50% water change reduces this to half, so 0.125 ammonia and 0.125 nitrIte. 50% does not reduce this to 0!!!
NitrIte is a lot more toxic to fish then ammonia and should always be reduced to 0!!!Ammonia at below 0.25 is ok in extreme circumstances but nitrIte should be kept at 0. Since you only have guppies there, I would advise to temporary put marine salt in the tank(1tbsp per 5gallons of water) The salt nutralises the nitrItes so the fish won't suffer from it. The guppies will have no problem with salt for a while. Make sure the salt is dissolved before dosing. You may increase the ammount of salt every day until you reach max 1tbps per gallon. The nirIte stage will last a few weeks and is safer this way as you may not be reducing the nitrIte to 0 at all times as it seems from your posts. Once you are cycled, the regular water changes will eventually remove all the salt from the tank.

 

[beccalovely]

Ok so things continue in the same way, although I'm now only getting 0.25 readings for ammonia and nitrite each day, with 50% water changes that reduce that back down to zero.

Might do a nitrate test soon... maybe I'm just being hopeful though!

If you have a 0.25 ammonia and 0.25 nitrIte reading, then 50% water change reduces this to half, so 0.125 ammonia and 0.125 nitrIte. 50% does not reduce this to 0!!!
NitrIte is a lot more toxic to fish then ammonia and should always be reduced to 0!!!Ammonia at below 0.25 is ok in extreme circumstances but nitrIte should be kept at 0. Since you only have guppies there, I would advise to temporary put marine salt in the tank(1tbsp per 5gallons of water) The salt nutralises the nitrItes so the fish won't suffer from it. The guppies will have no problem with salt for a while. Make sure the salt is dissolved before dosing. You may increase the ammount of salt every day until you reach max 1tbps per gallon. The nirIte stage will last a few weeks and is safer this way as you may not be reducing the nitrIte to 0 at all times as it seems from your posts. Once you are cycled, the regular water changes will eventually remove all the salt from the tank.

Maybe I should have been a bit more detailed...

Using the API test kit, anything that is even slightly off 0ppm (so slightly green for ammonia or a slight darker tone to the blue for nitrite) I consider 0.25ppm, even though it often isn't actually identical to the 0.25ppm on the card and is probably actually something in between 0 and 0.25.
After the water changes the test results are always yellow for ammonia and a very light blue for nitrite, so not even slightly off the 0ppm colour.

That is really useful advice about the salt though, thank you.
Sorry for the lack of detail previously, I should have been clearer. I'm confident that I'm reducing the level to 0ppm after water changes.

 

[snazy]

Ok so things continue in the same way, although I'm now only getting 0.25 readings for ammonia and nitrite each day, with 50% water changes that reduce that back down to zero.

Might do a nitrate test soon... maybe I'm just being hopeful though!

If you have a 0.25 ammonia and 0.25 nitrIte reading, then 50% water change reduces this to half, so 0.125 ammonia and 0.125 nitrIte. 50% does not reduce this to 0!!!
NitrIte is a lot more toxic to fish then ammonia and should always be reduced to 0!!!Ammonia at below 0.25 is ok in extreme circumstances but nitrIte should be kept at 0. Since you only have guppies there, I would advise to temporary put marine salt in the tank(1tbsp per 5gallons of water) The salt nutralises the nitrItes so the fish won't suffer from it. The guppies will have no problem with salt for a while. Make sure the salt is dissolved before dosing. You may increase the ammount of salt every day until you reach max 1tbps per gallon. The nirIte stage will last a few weeks and is safer this way as you may not be reducing the nitrIte to 0 at all times as it seems from your posts. Once you are cycled, the regular water changes will eventually remove all the salt from the tank.

Maybe I should have been a bit more detailed...

Using the API test kit, anything that is even slightly off 0ppm (so slightly green for ammonia or a slight darker tone to the blue for nitrite) I consider 0.25ppm, even though it often isn't actually identical to the 0.25ppm on the card and is probably actually something in between 0 and 0.25.
After the water changes the test results are always yellow for ammonia and a very light blue for nitrite, so not even slightly off the 0ppm colour.

That is really useful advice about the salt though, thank you.
Sorry for the lack of detail previously, I should have been clearer. I'm confident that I'm reducing the level to 0ppm after water changes.

OK, no worries. I just love maths However, 0.25 on the nitrIte API test can't really be mistaken for 0 or even something between 0 and 0.25. 0.25 nitrIte is light purple, anything less varies between dark blue to light blue for 0.

For ammonia, and I've been using the API test on 3 tanks for a year, the only difference between 0 and 0.25 is actually that when there's ammonia, the surface of the test tube has slight green tinge and if there's no ammonia the surface is dark yellow. Other than that the colour of the tube itself is the same yellow/super light green colour in both cases which of course can't be mistaken for the light green for 0.50. It is a very tricky one to read. Also, if there's ammonia in the water,when you shake the test tube after adding the two solutions it makes a lot of bubbles unlike when there's no ammonia.

 

[beccalovely]

Useful advice thanks!
I always err on the side of caution because sometimes i spend so long staring at the liquid trying to decide which colour it best matches to on the card I almost end up cross eyed!

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Useful advice thanks!
I always err on the side of caution because sometimes i spend so long staring at the liquid trying to decide which colour it best matches to on the card I almost end up cross eyed!

If it's not bright, vivid yellow, then there is Ammonia in your tank water. If it is not crystal, 'Disney' blue, then there is NitrIte in your water. The NitrAte test is alot more complex to read correctly.

Terry.

 

[judi]

Also, if there's ammonia in the water,when you shake the test tube after adding the two solutions it makes a lot of bubbles unlike when there's no ammonia.

snazy, I have to say that has been one of the best tips I've seen regarding ammonia testing, although now I am disappointed immediately instead of after the 5 minute wait

 

[snazy]

Also, if there's ammonia in the water,when you shake the test tube after adding the two solutions it makes a lot of bubbles unlike when there's no ammonia.

snazy, I have to say that has been one of the best tips I've seen regarding ammonia testing, although now I am disappointed immediately instead of after the 5 minute wait

When you shake the tube there will be some bubbles in both cases of course, but when there's present ammonia(and I just compared again today as I am cycling a new tank), the surface and just below the surface has tiny little bubbles even if the big ones have settled and stays like that for a good few minutes. The one with no ammonia settles in roughly a second, two max, almost immediately free of any gas bubbles

 

[judi]

Also, if there's ammonia in the water,when you shake the test tube after adding the two solutions it makes a lot of bubbles unlike when there's no ammonia.

snazy, I have to say that has been one of the best tips I've seen regarding ammonia testing, although now I am disappointed immediately instead of after the 5 minute wait

 

[beccalovely]

Ok so time for an update... I think finally things are improving.
Since my last post I have continued doing twice daily 50% water changes, and testing just prior to these.
Test results have varied between 0.25 and 0.5 for both ammonia and nitrite each time, hence the twice daily 50% water changes.

Yesterday afternoon results:
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0.5ppm
So approx 60% water change straight after

Today.... which I think must be day 14... (approx 20 hours since last water change as been at uni this morning)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 1ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Going to do a big (as much as possible out) water change now to bring the nitrites down.

But thinking it's good news that 20 hours after last water change the ammonia has stayed at 0ppm? Anybody think this is a good sign, or is it just thanks to the 60% water change yesterday?

 

[Chad]

I honestly can't say. 50% twice daily water changes is certainly going to remove the ammonia as would a 60%. However, the fact that you are showing some nitrite means that ammonia is being converted.

 

[beccalovely]

I honestly can't say. 50% twice daily water changes is certainly going to remove the ammonia as would a 60%. However, the fact that you are showing some nitrite means that ammonia is being converted.

Thanks Chad - I'm hoping that seeing as it's the first time ammonia has been 0ppm (even though I'm always doing the twice daily pwcs), and that nitrite is higher than I think it ever has been, is a good sign that it's progressing!
Am also happy to report that the three guppies are still happy and healthy as far as I can tell, they've been through a lot bless them.

My 4' tank is now in the nitrite phase of its fishless cycle, and I was thinking that if it finishes cycling before the biOrb I would transfer the guppies into the bigger tank and finish of the biOrb in a fishless manner... do you think this is a good idea or the moving back and forth would cause unnecessary stress?

 

[Chad]

If it finishes before the orb I would seriously try to figure out what you did differently with each tank!

It does sound like the tank is finally profressing.

 

[beccalovely]

If it finishes before the orb I would seriously try to figure out what you did differently with each tank!

Well I suppose the main difference is the other tank has been allowed to do a fish less cycle, so therefore ammonia was at 4ppm to start off with and now that it's in the nitrite phase it is being topped up daily to 2ppm, and obviously due to the biOrb having the fish in it ammonia has been repeatedly removed and never got that high. Also I got some mature media for the 4' tank, and although I did put a couple of bits of it in the biOrb the majority went into the external filter for the 4'. Not sure if it makes any difference but the 4' also has some real plants, and is a good 3 degress higher in temp than the biorb whilst it's cycling.