Fish-in Cycle

[beccalovely]

Okay, so originally I was going to do a fishless cycle as recommended on here, but a friend of mine's relative heard about my new tank and begged me to rescue a solitary male guppy who was being picked on in their tank. I rang the local aquatic centre, who have been really informative, and they said if I checked my water and levels were ok I could home the little guppy.
Used the API kit and pH was 7.5, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all 0ppm (tank had been up and running empty so was at 26 celsius). I'd been adding a small amount of food to the tank to build up some bacteria, no idea if that helps but thought I'd try it.
I then took a water sample to the aquatic centre and asked them to double check it, and they got the same results. I chose a couple of female guppies as they advised the male would be happier with a couple females to group with.
So, over about an hour the guppies acclimatised and were then added to the tank.

I tested the water at 6 hours, then 15 hours, then 24 hours after adding them, and there was no change.
Today I tested it again twice (am and pm) and again no change.
The only thing I haven't retested is the pH, but ammonia, nitrite and nitrate have all remained at 0ppm.

Is this normal? Shouldn't there have been a spike by now?

My 3 new little ones were a bit shy for the first couple of hours, but are now swimming around very happily and feeding well I really, really hope they are OK during this fish-in cycle, as it wasn't what I originally intended to do and don't want any harm to come to them... how long before I can relax and stop water testing twice a day do you think?

 

[Chad]

My recommendation is to take the fish back to your fiend's tank and just keep them in a nursery net while your tank cycles. That way they are safe from picking and safe from ammonia. Then when your tank is done you can fetch them and give them a new home.

 

[beccalovely]

Thanks for the suggestion, but as it was a friend's relative I don't really know them well enough to go backwards and forwards with the fish, I think they just thought I'd take him and that was that. I've spoken to the LFS who have always been helpful, and they say it's ok to do the fish in cycle this way.

Today the readings were
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

So, the ammonia spike has arrived. I don't know whether to do a 25% water change or whether this would just prevent the cycle from completing properly?
The fish are all behaving as usual and don't appear to be stressed at all, but I will be keeping a close eye on them and changing at least 25% of the water if their behaviour alters.
I will also only feed them twice a day instead of three times whilst the ammonia settles down, and check the levels again this evening.

I know that a lot of people will just want to tell me I'm doing the wrong thing, but this is the circumstance I've ended up with so I really would appreciate any advice on whether to do a 25% water change or allow the cycle to continue and change once I have nitrates present.

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Chad]

Fish-in cycles are problematic in my opinion. If you let the ammonia go the fish suffer but if you reduce the ammonia the cycle takes a very long time and much more work on your part. Especially when you are dealing with a sick or stressed fish the increase in ammonia is harmful. That means you need to manage it with water changes to levels that won't harm the fish, and so on until the tank is finally cycled.

I understand that you are in a unique circumstance and so are trying something we now advise against.

While you can't take the fish back and forth to the friend of a friend, perhaps the LFS would hold it for you as a favor?

 

[beccalovely]

Fish-in cycles are problematic in my opinion. If you let the ammonia go the fish suffer but if you reduce the ammonia the cycle takes a very long time and much more work on your part....
you need to manage it with water changes to levels that won't harm the fish, and so on until the tank is finally cycled.

While you can't take the fish back and forth to the friend of a friend, perhaps the LFS would hold it for you as a favor?

Thanks tcamos, I hadn't though of asking the LFS that, they may well do as they've always been very helpful and are only 5 minutes away. Would it stress the fish to move them there do you think?
Am I right in thinking that whilst optimum would be ammonia at 0ppm, its current level of 0.25ppm could be ok providing its not for too long and doesn't rise any higher?

I'm thinking signs I should watch out for are the fish spending time at the top, or not swimming around as much - anything else they might exhibit if the levels are bothering them?

Thanks again

 

[Chad]

Would it stress the fish to move them there do you think?

It will stress it some, but I think that's better than being in a cycling tank.

I'm thinking signs I should watch out for are the fish spending time at the top, or not swimming around as much - anything else they might exhibit if the levels are bothering them?

Sudden death. Though that might sound sarcastic I mean it literally and not sarcastically. Ammonia is toxic and at certain levels kills very quickly.

 

[beccalovely]

Sudden death. Though that might sound sarcastic I mean it literally and not sarcastically. Ammonia is toxic and at certain levels kills very quickly.

Oh

 

[Chad]

That's why it's so important to keep on a tank cycling with fish in it and why I say it takes more work on your part. You're playing rescuer during the cycle. People did it for years until we understood better but you are dealing with a fish that was picked on so I question if it is all that healthy to begin with.

 

[beccalovely]

Yes I see what you mean tcamos. Am going to test the water again after dinner, and obviously the fish are going to have to stay in it for tonight at least. If the ammonia has risen any more I will do a water change - it's only a 30 litre tank, so I could remove say 10-15 litres I would think. Will post the new results when I'v done them.

 

[Chad]

Keep us updated for sure.

 

[beccalovely]

Ok so took some photos of the test results just to make sure I'm interpreting them correctly, but actually the ammonia one in particular appears greener in the pic than in real life, but I'd be interested to see what you think:

So, I'm thinking:

Ammonia 0.25ppm (maybe slightly higher)
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

Perhaps I should pick up some bacteria stuff tomorrow, the LFS did mention I could try it if i wanted to.

The fish are still fine, swimming around apparently happily, and eating well when I fed them just after testing.

 

[Chad]

The first photo looks like .50ppm and 0, 0 but the second looks like .25 and 0, 0

 

[beccalovely]

I would say the second photo is a better representation of what I can see in 'real life' as it were.

 

[Chad]

You might find this useful in your situation.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/154313-of-toxic-ammonia-charts/

 

[fluttermoth]

I would say that looks nearer 0.5.

To be on the safe side, you want to change at least 50% of the water, preferably a lot more, as the ammonia will be continuing to rise all the time. I'd drain the tank right down, leaving just enough water for the fish to swim upright, before refilling.