Fish Dying

[rockrocker85]

Hey guys,

I brought a 20 gallon fish tank about 2 months ago. I setup a fresh water aquarium. I bought 4 tetras, 2 male colorful guppys, 2 female guppys, 2 platy fish and 6 tiny zebra dynos. I also bought two glowing tetras a month ago. So in all i have 18 fish in my tank. I took all care to set up a new tank and it was all good until yesterday. I used to change water once a week and I only empty 30 to 40 % of water so that i don't take away the bacteria required to support the fish.
I did a water change on Sunday (8/12/2012) night. I made sure I Dechlorinated the water before pouring into the fish tank. I added few drops of water cloud remover which I usually do during every water change. I then fed the fish before sleeping. The next day evening when I came back from office, i noticed one of the platy fish and one of the female guppy died. But all other fish were looking fine and playing. Today morning when I work up, i found the other platy and other female guppy also died. I checked the other fish. They are all looking fine. Now I got a doubt about male guppys, they are now only sticking at the top of the tank, rarely they are coming down today. They are not dead, but are not very active as they used to be. But the tetras and zebra dynos are active and doing good. I don't know about the male guppys, I fear how they will be when I go home today after work. Can some one help me whit this issue. What could be the reason for this. Following are the measures I have taken,

1) I ensured the water temperature is maintained properly.
2) I ensure they are fed food regularly.
3) I change water every once in a week.
4) I change filter every time I change the water.
5) I don't have anything to check the ammonia and nitrte levels. However,as I'm changing water every week, I thought it should not be a problem.

Can some one help me with what to do and how to stop this. It is really sad to see fish dying.

Thanks & Regards,
rockrocker85

 

[Salam]

First of all, sorry about your losses. I think you are doing the common newbie errors, and don't worry many of us have been there. Could you please answer my questions so we can help you a little more?

I brought a 20 gallon fish tank about 2 months ago. I setup a fresh water aquarium. I bought 4 tetras, 2 male colorful guppys, 2 female guppys, 2 platy fish and 6 tiny zebra dynos.

How long after setting up the tank did you add the fish? Did you add them all at once? Was it cycled? And cycling doesn't mean just letting the filter and heater run for a few days, it takes 6-8 weeks, so looking at your timescale I don't think it was.

I used to change water once a week and I only empty 30 to 40 % of water so that i don't take away the bacteria required to support the fish.

There is no bacteria in the water at all, it's all in the filter media (sponges, ceramics). So taking more water out is actually better.

1) I ensured the water temperature is maintained properly.
2) I ensure they are fed food regularly.
3) I change water every once in a week.
4) I change filter every time I change the water.
5) I don't have anything to check the ammonia and nitrte levels. However,as I'm changing water every week, I thought it should not be a problem.

1) What is the temperature set to?
2) How often do you feed and what?
3) Great, this is how it should be done.
4) Change filter? Can you elaborate? You never ever change the filter as this is where all the good bacteria is in. When you clean it you only clean it in tank water and not tap water as this will kill all the bacteria. You only change the pads when they literally fall apart, as in after a few years. Don't listen to what it says on the pack, the companies just want your money.
5) You need a test kit. By the sounds of it your fish are dying due to ammonia and nitrite poisoning, especially if you are getting new filter media every time. Could you please go to a pet shop with a water sample asap and get the exact results for us, so we can help. Otherwise it's all guesswork. And then please order a testing kit, you will need one.

For now, please perform a 90% water change with temperature matched, dechlorinated water. Then please get Ammonia and nitrite results via a fish shop for now. And then I'm sure there will be people here who can help you. Another question - was anything else added recently? Even decoration?

 

[slimeneo]

As Salam stated already, bacteria mostly live in the filter so it's important that you do NOT change it or else you will start cycling all over again. You can get some of the dirt out by taking it out and just swishing it in the tank water you take out for water changes, but never rinse it out with tap water in the sink.

Get a test kit, the one that is popular and reliable is this one: http/www.amazon.com/API-FRESHWATER-MASTER-TEST-KIT/dp/B000255NCI
It should be cheaper online than in-store. Don't get test strips, although they may be cheaper, they aren't as accurate.

It seems like you are overstocked also, which may be why your fish are dying off. You have too many fish in your tank- the rule is supposed to be 1" of fish per 1 gallon. Since you have a 20 gal, you can only have 20" of fish. When you're cycling, you shouldn't have so many fish in your tank.

Do as many water changes as you can until you can get a testing kit.

 

[rockrocker85]

Hi salam,

Find below the answers for your questions,

1) When I bought the fish tank, the shop guy asked me to set up the fresh water aquarium with the heater and filter and gave a one time coating liquid. It was some tetra coat or some thing. He asked me to add it and I waited for 2 days before adding the fish. As you said, i did not wait for 6 to 8 weeks and frankly I did not know about this detail. the shop keeper said it is ok to add fish after one to two days. I added all the fish at once, but did not mixt the shop water with mine, i just used a net to transfer the fish. The tow glowing tetra fish, I added a month ago.

2) I was told by the shop keeper that, I should change only 30 to 40 % water. But your view is different. Can you elaborate on this more.

3) I meant I changed the pads every time I do water change. Not the filter. Sorry about that.
But when you said, it strikes me, during my last water change, I removed the filer and washed it under the tap. I think that was a mistake i did. I did't realize the bacteria will be in filter. I removed the filter tube and cleaned it with a brush to remove the sticking poop in them. This was two weeks ago. But after that i have changed about 4 pads.
Can you tell me how often I can change the pads??

I feed the fish daily once in the night, before I go to sleep. I feed fish flakes. ( one is a cobalt flakes and other is the tetra flakes).

I set the heater temperature to 72 deg F as it was hot outside. Also the thermometer showed the tank was at 80 deg F when it was hot and my setting was 72 deg F. But last few days, the temperature of water was going down. So now I have set the heater to 76 deg F. The tank temperature now is between, 74 and 76 deg F.

I did not add anything extra. I add the water cloud remover once a week and I added it while do a water change on sunday. Also i add dechlorination before I add water to the tank. I don't do dechlorination in the fish tank.

I'll go to the pet shop today evening and get the ammonia and nitrite levels checked.

I also have one more question. During water change is it good to change the fish to a temporary location or I can have them in the tank itself. So far I have let them in tank itself while doing water change. I tried to transfer them to a temporary bowl during my first cleaning, but it was really hard to catch them and I did not want to traumatize them.

Thanks & Regards,
rockrocker85

First of all, sorry about your losses. I think you are doing the common newbie errors, and don't worry many of us have been there. Could you please answer my questions so we can help you a little more?

I brought a 20 gallon fish tank about 2 months ago. I setup a fresh water aquarium. I bought 4 tetras, 2 male colorful guppys, 2 female guppys, 2 platy fish and 6 tiny zebra dynos.

How long after setting up the tank did you add the fish? Did you add them all at once? Was it cycled? And cycling doesn't mean just letting the filter and heater run for a few days, it takes 6-8 weeks, so looking at your timescale I don't think it was.

I used to change water once a week and I only empty 30 to 40 % of water so that i don't take away the bacteria required to support the fish.

There is no bacteria in the water at all, it's all in the filter media (sponges, ceramics). So taking more water out is actually better.

1) I ensured the water temperature is maintained properly.
2) I ensure they are fed food regularly.
3) I change water every once in a week.
4) I change filter every time I change the water.
5) I don't have anything to check the ammonia and nitrte levels. However,as I'm changing water every week, I thought it should not be a problem.

1) What is the temperature set to?
2) How often do you feed and what?
3) Great, this is how it should be done.
4) Change filter? Can you elaborate? You never ever change the filter as this is where all the good bacteria is in. When you clean it you only clean it in tank water and not tap water as this will kill all the bacteria. You only change the pads when they literally fall apart, as in after a few years. Don't listen to what it says on the pack, the companies just want your money.
5) You need a test kit. By the sounds of it your fish are dying due to ammonia and nitrite poisoning, especially if you are getting new filter media every time. Could you please go to a pet shop with a water sample asap and get the exact results for us, so we can help. Otherwise it's all guesswork. And then please order a testing kit, you will need one.

For now, please perform a 90% water change with temperature matched, dechlorinated water. Then please get Ammonia and nitrite results via a fish shop for now. And then I'm sure there will be people here who can help you. Another question - was anything else added recently? Even decoration?

 

[rockrocker85]

Thank you slimeleo. I'll buy that test kit. What to do now to increase the bacteria levels. Should I use that tetra coat again to get it back into normal. The shop keeper told me that the tetra coat was the essential bacteria.

Thanks & Regards,
rockrocker85

As Salam stated already, bacteria mostly live in the filter so it's important that you do NOT change it or else you will start cycling all over again. You can get some of the dirt out by taking it out and just swishing it in the tank water you take out for water changes, but never rinse it out with tap water in the sink.

Get a test kit, the one that is popular and reliable is this one: http/www.amazon.com/API-FRESHWATER-MASTER-TEST-KIT/dp/B000255NCI
It should be cheaper online than in-store. Don't get test strips, although they may be cheaper, they aren't as accurate.

It seems like you are overstocked also, which may be why your fish are dying off. You have too many fish in your tank- the rule is supposed to be 1" of fish per 1 gallon. Since you have a 20 gal, you can only have 20" of fish. When you're cycling, you shouldn't have so many fish in your tank.

Do as many water changes as you can until you can get a testing kit.

 

[slimeneo]

I'm not too sure what the tetracoat is- is it the liquid you add during each water change to neutralize metals? Or is it something to jumpstart bacteria growth?

For water changes, the way I do it is I keep the fish in there, I have a gravel vacuum (something like this, but not mini. http/www.amazon.com/Aqueon-06226-Siphon-Aquarium-Cleaner/dp/B004RK40VY/ref=sr_1_5?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1344957426&sr=1-5&keywords=gravel+vacuum) and as I vacuum, it siphons the water out as well. There is no need to move all the fish to a bowl.

Since you already have fish in there..... you'd have to do a fish-in cycle. It will require a LOT of water changes, nearly everyday. However, you can ask your LFS if they can cut a piece of their filter media for your tank. It will cycle almost immediately and save you from all those water changes.

When you get your test kit, ideal conditions are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and you'll have around 5ppm nitrate if it is cycled. Anything above 0 for ammonia or nitrite is dangerous to the fish.

 

[Salam]

Hi salam,

Find below the answers for your questions,

1) When I bought the fish tank, the shop guy asked me to set up the fresh water aquarium with the heater and filter and gave a one time coating liquid. It was some tetra coat or some thing. He asked me to add it and I waited for 2 days before adding the fish. As you said, i did not wait for 6 to 8 weeks and frankly I did not know about this detail. the shop keeper said it is ok to add fish after one to two days. I added all the fish at once, but did not mixt the shop water with mine, i just used a net to transfer the fish. The tow glowing tetra fish, I added a month ago.

2) I was told by the shop keeper that, I should change only 30 to 40 % water. But your view is different. Can you elaborate on this more.

3) I meant I changed the pads every time I do water change. Not the filter. Sorry about that.
But when you said, it strikes me, during my last water change, I removed the filer and washed it under the tap. I think that was a mistake i did. I did't realize the bacteria will be in filter. I removed the filter tube and cleaned it with a brush to remove the sticking poop in them. This was two weeks ago. But after that i have changed about 4 pads.
Can you tell me how often I can change the pads??

I feed the fish daily once in the night, before I go to sleep. I feed fish flakes. ( one is a cobalt flakes and other is the tetra flakes).

I set the heater temperature to 72 deg F as it was hot outside. Also the thermometer showed the tank was at 80 deg F when it was hot and my setting was 72 deg F. But last few days, the temperature of water was going down. So now I have set the heater to 76 deg F. The tank temperature now is between, 74 and 76 deg F.

I did not add anything extra. I add the water cloud remover once a week and I added it while do a water change on sunday. Also i add dechlorination before I add water to the tank. I don't do dechlorination in the fish tank.

I'll go to the pet shop today evening and get the ammonia and nitrite levels checked.

I also have one more question. During water change is it good to change the fish to a temporary location or I can have them in the tank itself. So far I have let them in tank itself while doing water change. I tried to transfer them to a temporary bowl during my first cleaning, but it was really hard to catch them and I did not want to traumatize them.

Thanks & Regards,
rockrocker85

Thanks for your reply.

Ok, so even without test results I can say that you are most likely having a huge ammonia and / or nitrite spike as you have changed the filter pads last week. You have to basically do a fish in cycle now, which means daily, very large (90% or thereabouts) water changes. It won't be easy, but it's the only way to save the remaining fish. Have you spotted the resource centre yet? There is a link that will talk you through everything you need to do for the fish in cycle in detail. It also explains the nitrogen cycle in detail.

1) Rule number one in fishkeeping - never ever listen to a local fish shop (LFS). They mostly don't care about fish and just want your money. The product you were sold is useless, sorry to say. There have been many discussions here on the forum and the concesus is that live bacteria can't live in a bottle. Those magic potions do nothing, but empty your pockets.

2) 30 - 40% weekly is good when you have a cycled tank / filter. But in your case you have to do really large changes to get the toxins out or your fish will suffer and die.

3) So yes, every 2-4 weeks you take out the filter pads and give them a quick rinse in tank water. Just to get the gunk out. As soon as tap water (un-dechlorinated water!) touches the sponge the bacteria die. You need to keep them alive to get the toxins out of the water. Once you are cycled it's easy peasy and no problem at all. I have filter pads that I inherited that are over four years old and they are still going strong. So you really only change them when they literally fall into pieces.

4) Your feeding regime sounds good, once a day is ideal. Maybe spruce things up by giving them a treat once a week, either frozen or live food or things like bloodworm pellets. Your fish will love you for it and it enhances their colours and makes them healthier as you have more variety.

5) Try 75 Fahrenheit, that's the average for tropical tanks.

6) Leave fish in when doing water changes. Trying to catch them can and will stress them out. As you will be doing large ones for the next days / weeks, just leave enough for them to swim upright.

Thanks for going to the shop later, it would really help knowing the exact numbers. And if you have the cash, then just grab an API testing kit, even if it's just ammonia and nitrite for now, not the full master kit. You should never have ammonia or nitrite go over 0.25 ppm, ideally at a constant 0.

I hope I haven't missed anything and answered your questions. I'll be online later to see what the LFS tested.

P.s.: I think your stocking is also not ideal, tetras are shoaling fish, but for now let's get your water safe for the fish and then we could look at your stocking.

 

[rockrocker85]

The shop guy told me it is to jump start the bacteria growth. I already have a filer for my aquarium. What do you mean by filer media. is it some thing extra??

I'm not too sure what the tetracoat is- is it the liquid you add during each water change to neutralize metals? Or is it something to jumpstart bacteria growth?

For water changes, the way I do it is I keep the fish in there, I have a gravel vacuum (something like this, but not mini. http/www.amazon.com/Aqueon-06226-Siphon-Aquarium-Cleaner/dp/B004RK40VY/ref=sr_1_5?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1344957426&sr=1-5&keywords=gravel+vacuum) and as I vacuum, it siphons the water out as well. There is no need to move all the fish to a bowl.

Since you already have fish in there..... you'd have to do a fish-in cycle. It will require a LOT of water changes, nearly everyday. However, you can ask your LFS if they can cut a piece of their filter media for your tank. It will cycle almost immediately and save you from all those water changes.

When you get your test kit, ideal conditions are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and you'll have around 5ppm nitrate if it is cycled. Anything above 0 for ammonia or nitrite is dangerous to the fish.

 

[Salam]

Some (good) shops give away or sell filter media. This is the sponge that goes inside the filter. The ones at the LFS should be full of good bacteria which will keep the toxins at 0, so if you can get hold of some that would be great. But not everyone does it.

 

[slimeneo]

The shop guy told me it is to jump start the bacteria growth. I already have a filer for my aquarium. What do you mean by filer media. is it some thing extra??

Filter media is the spongey thing in your filter. It holds the bacteria.

When I went in and asked one of the people working there for mature filter media, they looked at me weirdly but gave me some anyway from one of their display tanks.

 

[rockrocker85]

Thank you salam. I'll get the water tested and post the results in about 6 to 8 hrs from now. That's when I'll be off work and get this taken care.

Hi salam,

Find below the answers for your questions,

1) When I bought the fish tank, the shop guy asked me to set up the fresh water aquarium with the heater and filter and gave a one time coating liquid. It was some tetra coat or some thing. He asked me to add it and I waited for 2 days before adding the fish. As you said, i did not wait for 6 to 8 weeks and frankly I did not know about this detail. the shop keeper said it is ok to add fish after one to two days. I added all the fish at once, but did not mixt the shop water with mine, i just used a net to transfer the fish. The tow glowing tetra fish, I added a month ago.

2) I was told by the shop keeper that, I should change only 30 to 40 % water. But your view is different. Can you elaborate on this more.

3) I meant I changed the pads every time I do water change. Not the filter. Sorry about that.
But when you said, it strikes me, during my last water change, I removed the filer and washed it under the tap. I think that was a mistake i did. I did't realize the bacteria will be in filter. I removed the filter tube and cleaned it with a brush to remove the sticking poop in them. This was two weeks ago. But after that i have changed about 4 pads.
Can you tell me how often I can change the pads??

I feed the fish daily once in the night, before I go to sleep. I feed fish flakes. ( one is a cobalt flakes and other is the tetra flakes).

I set the heater temperature to 72 deg F as it was hot outside. Also the thermometer showed the tank was at 80 deg F when it was hot and my setting was 72 deg F. But last few days, the temperature of water was going down. So now I have set the heater to 76 deg F. The tank temperature now is between, 74 and 76 deg F.

I did not add anything extra. I add the water cloud remover once a week and I added it while do a water change on sunday. Also i add dechlorination before I add water to the tank. I don't do dechlorination in the fish tank.

I'll go to the pet shop today evening and get the ammonia and nitrite levels checked.

I also have one more question. During water change is it good to change the fish to a temporary location or I can have them in the tank itself. So far I have let them in tank itself while doing water change. I tried to transfer them to a temporary bowl during my first cleaning, but it was really hard to catch them and I did not want to traumatize them.

Thanks & Regards,
rockrocker85

Thanks for your reply.

Ok, so even without test results I can say that you are most likely having a huge ammonia and / or nitrite spike as you have changed the filter pads last week. You have to basically do a fish in cycle now, which means daily, very large (90% or thereabouts) water changes. It won't be easy, but it's the only way to save the remaining fish. Have you spotted the resource centre yet? There is a link that will talk you through everything you need to do for the fish in cycle in detail. It also explains the nitrogen cycle in detail.

1) Rule number one in fishkeeping - never ever listen to a local fish shop (LFS). They mostly don't care about fish and just want your money. The product you were sold is useless, sorry to say. There have been many discussions here on the forum and the concesus is that live bacteria can't live in a bottle. Those magic potions do nothing, but empty your pockets.

2) 30 - 40% weekly is good when you have a cycled tank / filter. But in your case you have to do really large changes to get the toxins out or your fish will suffer and die.

3) So yes, every 2-4 weeks you take out the filter pads and give them a quick rinse in tank water. Just to get the gunk out. As soon as tap water (un-dechlorinated water!) touches the sponge the bacteria die. You need to keep them alive to get the toxins out of the water. Once you are cycled it's easy peasy and no problem at all. I have filter pads that I inherited that are over four years old and they are still going strong. So you really only change them when they literally fall into pieces.

4) Your feeding regime sounds good, once a day is ideal. Maybe spruce things up by giving them a treat once a week, either frozen or live food or things like bloodworm pellets. Your fish will love you for it and it enhances their colours and makes them healthier as you have more variety.

5) Try 75 Fahrenheit, that's the average for tropical tanks.

6) Leave fish in when doing water changes. Trying to catch them can and will stress them out. As you will be doing large ones for the next days / weeks, just leave enough for them to swim upright.

Thanks for going to the shop later, it would really help knowing the exact numbers. And if you have the cash, then just grab an API testing kit, even if it's just ammonia and nitrite for now, not the full master kit. You should never have ammonia or nitrite go over 0.25 ppm, ideally at a constant 0.

I hope I haven't missed anything and answered your questions. I'll be online later to see what the LFS tested.

P.s.: I think your stocking is also not ideal, tetras are shoaling fish, but for now let's get your water safe for the fish and then we could look at your stocking.

ok.I'll try to check that out.

The shop guy told me it is to jump start the bacteria growth. I already have a filer for my aquarium. What do you mean by filer media. is it some thing extra??

Filter media is the spongey thing in your filter. It holds the bacteria.

When I went in and asked one of the people working there for mature filter media, they looked at me weirdly but gave me some anyway from one of their display tanks.

 

[Salam]

In 6-8 hours I might be in bed, I'm in the UK But will check first thing in the morning and I'm sure someone else will also come along and help. For tonight, just do a big water change to get most of the toxins out.

 

[rockrocker85]

Ok salam. Will do. Thank you!!

In 6-8 hours I might be in bed, I'm in the UK But will check first thing in the morning and I'm sure someone else will also come along and help. For tonight, just do a big water change to get most of the toxins out.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

If you have not done since fish started dying, I highly recommend my regular "do an emergency ~95% water change" routine ASAP, replacing with similar temp dechlorinated water. I suspect you are effectively "fish in cyling" because of buying new fish and regularly removeing filter pads/sponges.

Every time you are changing pads, you are risking ammonia/nitrite spikes, as said earlier only replace when they fall apart after several years use. Only exceptions are the whitish filter floss pad (every one or two weeks) and the carbon pad if you are using it for its adsorbing properties (after ~7 days it is basically just another media surface and removing then is removing bacterial colonies).

It is good practice to rinse the media gently in removed tank water once in a while, to get rid of the "gunk", the frequency of doing this varies enormously with your stocking an dfilter model. I typically strip down my internal Fluval U4s every 2-3 weeks, whereas my externals (APS2000EFs; Eheim 2078; Fluval FX5) typically get a strip down every 2-3 months.

I shall finish on another one of my common "high horse" issues: temperature. Your Guppies and Zebra Danios will do far better in a heaterless tank that changes temp through the seasons, as long as it does not dip too much below 18C (low 60s F), the same could be siad of your Platties depending upon the species. I'm hoping your tetras are temperate fish too, otherwise they should not ideally be in the same tank. Regardless, you will be doing your fish no favours by keeping them at >72F for more than a few months per year, I personally suggest you turn your heater to 72F and if the weather cools a little it will still maintain "summer" temps. Temperature has a relationship with metabolic rate (more energetic; need more food; produce more waste; possible ammonia/nitrite spikes; reduced lifespan) and inversely with oxygen levels, so in warmer periods it is best to provide extra water surface movement.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I don't know if it was mentioned. But don't remove or change your filter sponges when cleaning your tank. You can check your sponge and if it has a lot of slimy brown gunk on it, remove a bowl full of tank water and place your sponge into it and squeeze the gunk out of the sponge. If it is still not clean, refill the bowl with more tank water and do it again until you aren't squeezing any more brown gunk from your sponge. And ONLY do this in tank water, not tap water. I find I only have to do this about once per month, not usually any more often.

Only replace your sponges once they have begun to fall apart... and that can be years.