Fish Dying (Very High Ph)

[KezJona]

I'm not making any assumptions. I'm not saying you don't know anything. I'm saying if you don't know what a cycle is, you probably haven't done it. Hell, I still make some pretty stupid mistakes. I'm glad you are reading and following advice. I reread sections all the time to make sure I understood everything. I am honestly not trying to aggrivate you. I sincerely want you and your fish to be happy. That is my only goal. I'm sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. You want to listen to your parents, which I find commendable, but a small water change every three weeks and cycling a filter without an ammonia source is not good advice, in my opinion. I wish to God there was a place like this when I started my tanks.

I didn't know what a cycle was because I didn't call it cycle, I called it setting up the tank, I still did it but when I was asked did you cycle? I was a bit whats cycling, then I was told "If you don't know what it is you probably didn't do it" <--- Not very helpful so I looked it up and as I said on there I did do it, I just didn't call it cycling. No fish went in that tank at all until there was no ammonia or nitrite and nitrate had become low.

Did you use pure household ammonia? Without any other chemicals or substances on the ingredients label when you cycled your tank?

??? Why would you put ammonia in the tank yourself?

Because that is the whole reasoning behind doing a fishless cycle, or as you call it "setting the tank up". If you didn't add Ammonia yourself then you didn't cycle your tank correctly - which means you WERE doing a fish-in cycle before all your fish died. Which also means doing a water change every 3 weeks is insufficient and is the probable cause of death. The high PH level could have been caused by the prescence of Ammonia, which is exactly what is happening in my tank that is currently going through it's first fishless cycle.

Kez

 

[colleen0309]

No, what you said is the tank was set up in your parents shop... with no fish in it. It was used as a display tank, with no fish. With no fish or an ammonia sourse, it is NOT cycled. Yes, the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates will be zero without no fish in the tank. No ammonia source = no ammonia. I'm not going to argue with you. Your posts seem to contradict each other and you seem to only want to listen to what you want to hear. I wish you and all of your fish the best of luck.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

No, what you said is the tank was set up in your parents shop... with no fish in it. It was used as a display tank, with no fish. With no fish or an ammonia sourse, it is NOT cycled. Yes, the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates will be zero without no fish in the tank. No ammonia source = no ammonia. I'm not going to argue with you. Your posts seem to contradict each other and you seem to only want to listen to what you want to hear. I wish you and all of your fish the best of luck.

By display tank there was nothing in it, no water nothing, how else did I manage to carry a full tank home? I never even implied there was anything in it. Why would you need to add ammonia when within 6 days of having the tank running with no fish in the ammonia level shoots through the roof anyway. Either explain it fully without the attitude or don't bother because just jumping on me like this isn't helpful.

I will tell you how I set up a tank not my new one because that one is special.

I get the tank after being tested and made sure it's safe to add the water, I then wash the gravel and add it to the tank.

I fill the tank up without about 2 litres to spare with water and add the correct amount of tap safe. I then have 2 filters running, 1 old one which is due a change in a few weeks and 1 new one but with one of the sponges replaced with an old one from another filter.

Then I set up the decoration while I wait and leave everything just running as it is. In about 6 days I test the water in the tank and I see that the Ammonia is very high. I test again in another 6 days and usually see ebbing ammonia levels and high nitrite levels and low nitrate levels.

I keep testing until ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate is low.

I introduce one set of fish of the ones I'm adding for example if I want to add 20 danios to my tank I'll introduce 4 or 5.

I test the water a week later and make sure ammonia and nitrite are 0 and I add another set and do this weekly until all the fish are in.

Before I did 3 weekly water changes I now do weekly water changes.



So what is it I am doing wrong? And if you could explain in full what and why I need to do different things then I'll be more willing to listen, I can't learn if all you say to me is "thats wrong".

 

[colleen0309]

I wasn't going to respond to your last post as I am beginning to suspect you are a "troll" trying to aggrivate people. But incase you are really a young person trying to get good advice, I feel compelled to respond. first and foremost... I have not given you attitude. I have replied to your problem with good advice. I reread your posts you have linked at the top of this thread. Very confusing. So I will try very hard to explain what a number of other members have already tried to explain.
1. Cycling a filter
The reason you cycle a filter is to build up a colony of bacteria to eat the ammonia your fish will produce thru excretion and respiration. To achieve this you either do a fishless cycle or a fish in cycle.
Fishless Cycle- This is the condenced version. To get the full version, go here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/ You set up the aquarium with your gravel and water. Put your filter and heater in place. Get everything running. Add ammonia. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I believe you add enough ammonia to get a reading of 4 - 5 ppm. once the ammonia drops to 1 ppm... add more ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm. Continue adding ammonia in this matter until it only takes 12 hours for the ammonia to drop to 0. When this happens your nitrites will raise. Continue to feed the bacteria ammonia. When these, both ammonia and nitrites dissappear in 12 hours, you are cycled. Do a big water change and add fish... slowly.
For a fish in cycle, you fill the tank, set up the filter and heater and add some very hardy fish. Do daily 50 - 75% water changes every day, or twice a day, to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm. This method is very hard on the fish you use. They may very well die. This method may take a month or more to complete.
I think I have explained this fully to you. Once again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I do not give attitude. I am a 47 year old with 42 years experience. I have no alterior motives. My only wish is to be able to help people benefit from my experience. I will not respond to any more of this thread. Good luck in your future endevors as a fish keeper.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

I wasn't going to respond to your last post as I am beginning to suspect you are a "troll" trying to aggrivate people. But incase you are really a young person trying to get good advice, I feel compelled to respond. first and foremost... I have not given you attitude. I have replied to your problem with good advice. I reread your posts you have linked at the top of this thread. Very confusing. So I will try very hard to explain what a number of other members have already tried to explain.
1. Cycling a filter
The reason you cycle a filter is to build up a colony of bacteria to eat the ammonia your fish will produce thru excretion and respiration. To achieve this you either do a fishless cycle or a fish in cycle.
Fishless Cycle- This is the condenced version. To get the full version, go here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/ You set up the aquarium with your gravel and water. Put your filter and heater in place. Get everything running. Add ammonia. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I believe you add enough ammonia to get a reading of 4 - 5 ppm. once the ammonia drops to 1 ppm... add more ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm. Continue adding ammonia in this matter until it only takes 12 hours for the ammonia to drop to 0. When this happens your nitrites will raise. Continue to feed the bacteria ammonia. When these, both ammonia and nitrites dissappear in 12 hours, you are cycled. Do a big water change and add fish... slowly.
For a fish in cycle, you fill the tank, set up the filter and heater and add some very hardy fish. Do daily 50 - 75% water changes every day, or twice a day, to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm. This method is very hard on the fish you use. They may very well die. This method may take a month or more to complete.
I think I have explained this fully to you. Once again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I do not give attitude. I am a 47 year old with 42 years experience. I have no alterior motives. My only wish is to be able to help people benefit from my experience. I will not respond to any more of this thread. Good luck in your future endevors as a fish keeper.

Thanks for your help, then I am unsure what I was doing then because I was following a book I have on it which sets up as I did and involves gradual fish introduction, so I am confused by what the book says to do and the test results and what you have said. I can begin adding ammonia but my ammonia levels are already that high (I think higher actually) and I've not added anything. I'll buy some ammonia and add when the ammonia level drops though as it's starting to do.

***EDIT***

Decided to summarise what it says in this book.

It says when you do it the way I have been (I'm not saying its right anymore after what you've said) the bacteria from the older filters and sponges begin producing ammonia and then new bacteria starts to make it into nitrites then nitrates.

Guess buying books on this stuff is pointless I have a tub of bacteria which says you can put in fish 3 days after putting water in your tank after using it and fish food which says to feed 3 times a day, none of it is true

 

[KezJona]

I wasn't going to respond to your last post as I am beginning to suspect you are a "troll" trying to aggrivate people. But incase you are really a young person trying to get good advice, I feel compelled to respond. first and foremost... I have not given you attitude. I have replied to your problem with good advice. I reread your posts you have linked at the top of this thread. Very confusing. So I will try very hard to explain what a number of other members have already tried to explain.
1. Cycling a filter
The reason you cycle a filter is to build up a colony of bacteria to eat the ammonia your fish will produce thru excretion and respiration. To achieve this you either do a fishless cycle or a fish in cycle.
Fishless Cycle- This is the condenced version. To get the full version, go here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/ You set up the aquarium with your gravel and water. Put your filter and heater in place. Get everything running. Add ammonia. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I believe you add enough ammonia to get a reading of 4 - 5 ppm. once the ammonia drops to 1 ppm... add more ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm. Continue adding ammonia in this matter until it only takes 12 hours for the ammonia to drop to 0. When this happens your nitrites will raise. Continue to feed the bacteria ammonia. When these, both ammonia and nitrites dissappear in 12 hours, you are cycled. Do a big water change and add fish... slowly.
For a fish in cycle, you fill the tank, set up the filter and heater and add some very hardy fish. Do daily 50 - 75% water changes every day, or twice a day, to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm. This method is very hard on the fish you use. They may very well die. This method may take a month or more to complete.
I think I have explained this fully to you. Once again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I do not give attitude. I am a 47 year old with 42 years experience. I have no alterior motives. My only wish is to be able to help people benefit from my experience. I will not respond to any more of this thread. Good luck in your future endevors as a fish keeper.

Thanks for your help, then I am unsure what I was doing then because I was following a book I have on it which sets up as I did and involves gradual fish introduction, so I am confused by what the book says to do and the test results and what you have said. I can begin adding ammonia but my ammonia levels are already that high (I think higher actually) and I've not added anything. I'll buy some ammonia and add when the ammonia level drops though as it's starting to do.

***EDIT***

Decided to summarise what it says in this book.

It says when you do it the way I have been (I'm not saying its right anymore after what you've said) the bacteria from the older filters and sponges begin producing ammonia and then new bacteria starts to make it into nitrites then nitrates.

Guess buying books on this stuff is pointless I have a tub of bacteria which says you can put in fish 3 days after putting water in your tank after using it and fish food which says to feed 3 times a day, none of it is true

My own personal advice, and this is what I have done, is to just start again. Drain all your water out, add new water, clean everything properly and then begin adding your own ammonia into the tank once the water has heated up to around 28-30C. I am no expert, I am still very much a noob when it comes to fish keeping, but this is my logical approach:

If you start to add Ammonia to a tank that has already had problems then these problems may just come back to bite you in the bum. Which is why it is probably best just to start over and follow the fishless cycle guide that Coleen linked you too.

Kez

 

[Louiseness]

It says when you do it the way I have been (I'm not saying its right anymore after what you've said) the bacteria from the older filters and sponges begin producing ammonia and then new bacteria starts to make it into nitrites then nitrates.

The bacteria in an established filter CONSUME ammonia, not produce it. These are the same bacteria you cultivate in the cycling process by either adding ammonia or having fish in the tank which produce ammonia from their waste.

Hopefully now you can see why everyone is getting so frustrated when you say you've cycled/'set up the tank'.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

I wasn't going to respond to your last post as I am beginning to suspect you are a "troll" trying to aggrivate people. But incase you are really a young person trying to get good advice, I feel compelled to respond. first and foremost... I have not given you attitude. I have replied to your problem with good advice. I reread your posts you have linked at the top of this thread. Very confusing. So I will try very hard to explain what a number of other members have already tried to explain.
1. Cycling a filter
The reason you cycle a filter is to build up a colony of bacteria to eat the ammonia your fish will produce thru excretion and respiration. To achieve this you either do a fishless cycle or a fish in cycle.
Fishless Cycle- This is the condenced version. To get the full version, go here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/ You set up the aquarium with your gravel and water. Put your filter and heater in place. Get everything running. Add ammonia. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I believe you add enough ammonia to get a reading of 4 - 5 ppm. once the ammonia drops to 1 ppm... add more ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm. Continue adding ammonia in this matter until it only takes 12 hours for the ammonia to drop to 0. When this happens your nitrites will raise. Continue to feed the bacteria ammonia. When these, both ammonia and nitrites dissappear in 12 hours, you are cycled. Do a big water change and add fish... slowly.
For a fish in cycle, you fill the tank, set up the filter and heater and add some very hardy fish. Do daily 50 - 75% water changes every day, or twice a day, to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm. This method is very hard on the fish you use. They may very well die. This method may take a month or more to complete.
I think I have explained this fully to you. Once again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I do not give attitude. I am a 47 year old with 42 years experience. I have no alterior motives. My only wish is to be able to help people benefit from my experience. I will not respond to any more of this thread. Good luck in your future endevors as a fish keeper.

Thanks for your help, then I am unsure what I was doing then because I was following a book I have on it which sets up as I did and involves gradual fish introduction, so I am confused by what the book says to do and the test results and what you have said. I can begin adding ammonia but my ammonia levels are already that high (I think higher actually) and I've not added anything. I'll buy some ammonia and add when the ammonia level drops though as it's starting to do.

***EDIT***

Decided to summarise what it says in this book.

It says when you do it the way I have been (I'm not saying its right anymore after what you've said) the bacteria from the older filters and sponges begin producing ammonia and then new bacteria starts to make it into nitrites then nitrates.

Guess buying books on this stuff is pointless I have a tub of bacteria which says you can put in fish 3 days after putting water in your tank after using it and fish food which says to feed 3 times a day, none of it is true

My own personal advice, and this is what I have done, is to just start again. Drain all your water out, add new water, clean everything properly and then begin adding your own ammonia into the tank once the water has heated up to around 28-30C. I am no expert, I am still very much a noob when it comes to fish keeping, but this is my logical approach:

If you start to add Ammonia to a tank that has already had problems then these problems may just come back to bite you in the bum. Which is why it is probably best just to start over and follow the fishless cycle guide that Coleen linked you too.

Kez

It's what I'm going to do, it's just stupid that I buy a book and an expensive one too as it goes through diseases and treatments, follow it to the letter and it be totally wrong, if it had told me all this I wouldn't have sent those fishes to their death

 

[KezJona]

I wasn't going to respond to your last post as I am beginning to suspect you are a "troll" trying to aggrivate people. But incase you are really a young person trying to get good advice, I feel compelled to respond. first and foremost... I have not given you attitude. I have replied to your problem with good advice. I reread your posts you have linked at the top of this thread. Very confusing. So I will try very hard to explain what a number of other members have already tried to explain.
1. Cycling a filter
The reason you cycle a filter is to build up a colony of bacteria to eat the ammonia your fish will produce thru excretion and respiration. To achieve this you either do a fishless cycle or a fish in cycle.
Fishless Cycle- This is the condenced version. To get the full version, go here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/ You set up the aquarium with your gravel and water. Put your filter and heater in place. Get everything running. Add ammonia. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I believe you add enough ammonia to get a reading of 4 - 5 ppm. once the ammonia drops to 1 ppm... add more ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm. Continue adding ammonia in this matter until it only takes 12 hours for the ammonia to drop to 0. When this happens your nitrites will raise. Continue to feed the bacteria ammonia. When these, both ammonia and nitrites dissappear in 12 hours, you are cycled. Do a big water change and add fish... slowly.
For a fish in cycle, you fill the tank, set up the filter and heater and add some very hardy fish. Do daily 50 - 75% water changes every day, or twice a day, to keep the ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm. This method is very hard on the fish you use. They may very well die. This method may take a month or more to complete.
I think I have explained this fully to you. Once again, I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I do not give attitude. I am a 47 year old with 42 years experience. I have no alterior motives. My only wish is to be able to help people benefit from my experience. I will not respond to any more of this thread. Good luck in your future endevors as a fish keeper.

Thanks for your help, then I am unsure what I was doing then because I was following a book I have on it which sets up as I did and involves gradual fish introduction, so I am confused by what the book says to do and the test results and what you have said. I can begin adding ammonia but my ammonia levels are already that high (I think higher actually) and I've not added anything. I'll buy some ammonia and add when the ammonia level drops though as it's starting to do.

***EDIT***

Decided to summarise what it says in this book.

It says when you do it the way I have been (I'm not saying its right anymore after what you've said) the bacteria from the older filters and sponges begin producing ammonia and then new bacteria starts to make it into nitrites then nitrates.

Guess buying books on this stuff is pointless I have a tub of bacteria which says you can put in fish 3 days after putting water in your tank after using it and fish food which says to feed 3 times a day, none of it is true

My own personal advice, and this is what I have done, is to just start again. Drain all your water out, add new water, clean everything properly and then begin adding your own ammonia into the tank once the water has heated up to around 28-30C. I am no expert, I am still very much a noob when it comes to fish keeping, but this is my logical approach:

If you start to add Ammonia to a tank that has already had problems then these problems may just come back to bite you in the bum. Which is why it is probably best just to start over and follow the fishless cycle guide that Coleen linked you too.

Kez

It's what I'm going to do, it's just stupid that I buy a book and an expensive one too as it goes through diseases and treatments, follow it to the letter and it be totally wrong, if it had told me all this I wouldn't have sent those fishes to their death

It is a shame but at least you have found out now rather then buying another stock of fishies and then them dieing!

 

[ProjectMayhem]

The thing is I already have added another stock because of the point I made that I kept being told I was wrong (well the book was) but not told how to do it properly (first I've heard about adding ammonia) Luckily though these fish are fine and the water is ok, but sounds like more luck than anything else.

It's just I've set up a second tank and have to start again now after I buy some ammonia, who the hell writes these books!!! ¬_¬

 

[Dieses Madchen]

It may well have, but try not to get too elaborate on PH and it's issues... relatively small changes will not kill your entire stock, whereas traces of Ammonia and NitrIe will...

You say it is fine, i presume you mean fully cycled and tested regulary? Again, water parameter results will usually get you the answers you're looking for.

Terry.

I'm inclined to disagree. The pH in his tank was extremely high. I had a pH spike that went up to round abouts 8.5, and it killed over half my fish. It was a well extablished tank with perfect parameters. I had those fish for almost a year and never had a problem until the pH spike.....the ammonia and nitrites in my tank when that happened were 0, and the nitrates were 10. I had tried to correct a low pH (WHICH I WILL NEVER DO AGAIN ASIDE FROM WATER CHANGES LOL) and the product was only supposed to take it as high as 7.0 (pH was 6.2-6.4 in the tank) and the procuct skyrocketed the pH to over 8. I lost 4 fish from it. The rest are doing well now thankfully lol.