Rooster
Fish Herder
Im near J26 on M1.... pm or email me for details...
Fish Dead, Think Ive Got A Problem
- Thread starter riksworld
- Start date
riksworld
Fish Fanatic
Cheers Rooster, im just going to do a few tests, ill be in touch tomorrow via pm
riksworld
Fish Fanatic
Hi guys, me again, sorry 
Ive just done some tests on some things and I thought id share my results:
brand new bucket, fresh water from tap reads 0 ammonia, leave for 12 hrs, now reads 0.25
glass, tested 0 ammonia, left overnight in a corner of the kitchen, now also reads 0.25
purchased 2 small bottles of water, left next to bucket and other next to glass, still reading 0 ammonia
so im guessing my test kit is working correctly, the new one that is, it would seem that somthing is making the water change to ammonia, does anyone have any ideas about this?
could i buy a water filter type of affair to remove this ammonia before putting it in the tank as it would seem when i empty the tank im only putting the ammonia back into it a few hours later
hopefully someone can share there thoughts
Ive just done some tests on some things and I thought id share my results:
brand new bucket, fresh water from tap reads 0 ammonia, leave for 12 hrs, now reads 0.25
glass, tested 0 ammonia, left overnight in a corner of the kitchen, now also reads 0.25
purchased 2 small bottles of water, left next to bucket and other next to glass, still reading 0 ammonia
so im guessing my test kit is working correctly, the new one that is, it would seem that somthing is making the water change to ammonia, does anyone have any ideas about this?
could i buy a water filter type of affair to remove this ammonia before putting it in the tank as it would seem when i empty the tank im only putting the ammonia back into it a few hours later
hopefully someone can share there thoughts
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
thats really odd, i can't think of a single thing that would do that?!!
i would take a sample of water to the lfs and ask them to test it, it does seem that your test kit is working but it's always worth checking against another kit.
i would take a sample of water to the lfs and ask them to test it, it does seem that your test kit is working but it's always worth checking against another kit.
Rooster
Fish Herder
The plot thickens !!!!
Only thing I can come up with it airbourne contamination... do you use airfresheners or maybe an air cooler etc ?
riksworld
Fish Fanatic
Thanks miss wiggle, just took 2 water samples to the local fish shop, they used the same test kit as i use, the api one, they put the ammonia drops in and waited 5 mins, and yes, same, there is ammonia, they say around 0.25 ppm, the water was from the new bucket
so, does anyone have any thoughts, comments or ideas, as it stands at the moment i might have to think about giving this adventure as its not fair on the fish to have ammonia in the water
so, does anyone have any thoughts, comments or ideas, as it stands at the moment i might have to think about giving this adventure as its not fair on the fish to have ammonia in the water
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
OK, I've glanced through this thread but still may be missing the point here, so go easy on me...
The thing I thought of to add was that I know that my own water authority uses the chloramination technique (instead of simple chlorine) and early on when I first got curious about this stuff I performed a number of little tests to look into that. I tested tap water right out of tap at ammonia = 0ppm, then I put the appropriate amt of conditioner to break up the chloramines, which splits off the little bit of ammonia from the chloramine... and low and behold, yes, there was the trace ammonia showing up, a very, very light greenishness instead of pure clearish yellow, so one would just end up interpreting it as 0.25ppm
Honestly don't know if this has anything to do with solving your little mystery as I've been distracted by other things but thought I throw it out there for thought just in case...
~~waterdrop~~
The thing I thought of to add was that I know that my own water authority uses the chloramination technique (instead of simple chlorine) and early on when I first got curious about this stuff I performed a number of little tests to look into that. I tested tap water right out of tap at ammonia = 0ppm, then I put the appropriate amt of conditioner to break up the chloramines, which splits off the little bit of ammonia from the chloramine... and low and behold, yes, there was the trace ammonia showing up, a very, very light greenishness instead of pure clearish yellow, so one would just end up interpreting it as 0.25ppm
Honestly don't know if this has anything to do with solving your little mystery as I've been distracted by other things but thought I throw it out there for thought just in case...
~~waterdrop~~
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
ah yes wd, well spotted
the dechlorinator works to remove chlorine by breaking it up into it's componenet parts, chlorine and ammonia, it then gets rid of the chlorine and you are eft with trace ammonia, most of the time the filter will suck this in and process it.
try doing the experiment above to see if this is the case.
the dechlorinator works to remove chlorine by breaking it up into it's componenet parts, chlorine and ammonia, it then gets rid of the chlorine and you are eft with trace ammonia, most of the time the filter will suck this in and process it.
try doing the experiment above to see if this is the case.
riksworld
Fish Fanatic
As by request the latest test results for miss wiggle
running tap water taken into a glass, the poured into test vile, ammonia test added and waited 5 mins, result is 0, added the water treatment to the glass, waited 5 mins then poured this into another vile and carried the same test, result was 0
so i carried on with the testing:
tap water in glass which has been stood overnight, reads 0.25, took sample and add a couple of drops of tap treatment and waited 5 mins, took a 2nd reading now 0ppm
tap water left in bucket which also has stood overnight, reads 0.25, took same and did the same, now reads 0ppm
running tap water taken into a glass, the poured into test vile, ammonia test added and waited 5 mins, result is 0, added the water treatment to the glass, waited 5 mins then poured this into another vile and carried the same test, result was 0
so i carried on with the testing:
tap water in glass which has been stood overnight, reads 0.25, took sample and add a couple of drops of tap treatment and waited 5 mins, took a 2nd reading now 0ppm
tap water left in bucket which also has stood overnight, reads 0.25, took same and did the same, now reads 0ppm
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
So let me get this straight. This didn't do what we thought it might at all?
Adding a chloramination treatment did not split off any visible ammonia for you as it did for me?
And instead, we still seem to have the situation where the ammonia seems to go from 0 out of the tap to 0.25 after standing overnight, right?
(also, I couldn't understand your last sentence, so can't comment on that one)
OK, we're still probably missing something obvious, but another thought that comes to me, since I can't think of anything better, is to wonder whether your particular water authority is doing something a certain way. Like many here, I'm not a municiple water expert but I seem to recall threads where its been discussed that things in water departments get done in different ways. There are many water problems these people have to solve and many ways for them to attempt to do it. One thing I always like to throw out there is for people to see whether they can make contact with anyone in their local lab (in person works better than phone/email.)
~~waterdrop~~
Adding a chloramination treatment did not split off any visible ammonia for you as it did for me?
And instead, we still seem to have the situation where the ammonia seems to go from 0 out of the tap to 0.25 after standing overnight, right?
(also, I couldn't understand your last sentence, so can't comment on that one)
OK, we're still probably missing something obvious, but another thought that comes to me, since I can't think of anything better, is to wonder whether your particular water authority is doing something a certain way. Like many here, I'm not a municiple water expert but I seem to recall threads where its been discussed that things in water departments get done in different ways. There are many water problems these people have to solve and many ways for them to attempt to do it. One thing I always like to throw out there is for people to see whether they can make contact with anyone in their local lab (in person works better than phone/email.)
~~waterdrop~~
riksworld
Fish Fanatic
I wounder if its worth trying out my mums local supply, she lives a few miles away, just an idea
basicly waterdrop what is happening, if i measure my tap water now it will read 0 ppm, if i leave it say for 12 hours, the levels will start to increase, if i keep the changing the water in the tank for fresh water, ie from the tap, the levels in the tank are 0 for a short time, then will start to read 0.25 ppm, just like leaving it, say in a cup or bucket as described above, so that means i would have to keep changing the water 4 - 6 hours to keep the ammonia at 0
im just hoping i get this sorted out
would like thank everyone so far who has posted and idea / advice
basicly waterdrop what is happening, if i measure my tap water now it will read 0 ppm, if i leave it say for 12 hours, the levels will start to increase, if i keep the changing the water in the tank for fresh water, ie from the tap, the levels in the tank are 0 for a short time, then will start to read 0.25 ppm, just like leaving it, say in a cup or bucket as described above, so that means i would have to keep changing the water 4 - 6 hours to keep the ammonia at 0
im just hoping i get this sorted out
would like thank everyone so far who has posted and idea / advice
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Sure, checking out the water stats & overnight stats would be interesting.
Of course, remember, sometimes when you get me (and some of the others here, lol) going on some little thing like this we will always think its "interesting." But that doesn't necessarily mean its particularly important. Its interesting that the ammonia reading slides from 0 to 0.25 overnight but as things go, there are people who have worse levels out of the tap I believe. I believe we still think it could be some chemical additive that the water authority is using to counteract the ammonia while its in the pipes, right other members? At least that seems a possibility to me at the moment.
~~waterdrop~~
Of course, remember, sometimes when you get me (and some of the others here, lol) going on some little thing like this we will always think its "interesting." But that doesn't necessarily mean its particularly important. Its interesting that the ammonia reading slides from 0 to 0.25 overnight but as things go, there are people who have worse levels out of the tap I believe. I believe we still think it could be some chemical additive that the water authority is using to counteract the ammonia while its in the pipes, right other members? At least that seems a possibility to me at the moment.
~~waterdrop~~
riksworld
Fish Fanatic
Hi guys,
just tested my mums tap water a few miles down the road out of curosity, the tap water reads 0, then left overnight, reads same as mine 0.25, would it be possible to be some sort of filter to filter this out, like a ro unit?
just tested my mums tap water a few miles down the road out of curosity, the tap water reads 0, then left overnight, reads same as mine 0.25, would it be possible to be some sort of filter to filter this out, like a ro unit?
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
i was thinking the same thing WD, water authorities use all sorts of chemicals in your water, they work on the basis that water is used for cooking, washing and consumption mostly, for all these things the water is only used for a relativley short period of time and then drained away, except for thos of us nutty enough to keep big glass boxes of water in our houses, most people only use water short term.
this means the primary concern for water companies is often how the water will behave for a couple of hours after being drawn out of the tap, they use things like pH stabilisers which work for the time we need to use them but their effects will wear off if left. we've come across it before when peoples water readings out of the tap for pH are fairly neutral but after a few hrs start to drop down.
I don't know enough about the science behind water processing to speculate much further, but i can't help wondering if they are adding something which supresses the ammonia for a short period of time. This might be one for discussion in the science forum.....
However that being said, what concerns me more is that your filter is unable to process this little extra blip of ammonia after a water change, there are plenty of people who have tap water with an ammonia content of 0.25ppm, they would see a small blip of ammonia just after a water change but the filter would soon process this and if you took a reading a couple of hours later it would be at 0. The fact that your filter is not doing this is more of a concern than the ammonia rising, we should be careful not to get distracted.
Remind me what size tank this is, what make and model of filter you have and what fish and how many you have, run through your routine for maintenance, filter cleaning etc etc and we'll see if we can spot the problem.
this means the primary concern for water companies is often how the water will behave for a couple of hours after being drawn out of the tap, they use things like pH stabilisers which work for the time we need to use them but their effects will wear off if left. we've come across it before when peoples water readings out of the tap for pH are fairly neutral but after a few hrs start to drop down.
I don't know enough about the science behind water processing to speculate much further, but i can't help wondering if they are adding something which supresses the ammonia for a short period of time. This might be one for discussion in the science forum.....
However that being said, what concerns me more is that your filter is unable to process this little extra blip of ammonia after a water change, there are plenty of people who have tap water with an ammonia content of 0.25ppm, they would see a small blip of ammonia just after a water change but the filter would soon process this and if you took a reading a couple of hours later it would be at 0. The fact that your filter is not doing this is more of a concern than the ammonia rising, we should be careful not to get distracted.
Remind me what size tank this is, what make and model of filter you have and what fish and how many you have, run through your routine for maintenance, filter cleaning etc etc and we'll see if we can spot the problem.
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Nice MW, sounds like a good direction to head.. (rooster, look good to you?)
~~waterdrop~~
~~waterdrop~~
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