Fin Nipping Or Splitting

[forg0tt3nang3l]

Is it normal when the male nips at the female's fins or when the female nips at the male's? I have two male bettas and two female bettas. I put one of the females in one of the males tanks to try and get them to mate. The male flares at the female and kinda chases after it or something. I look away for like a minute and when I check on them, I always see some fins that are missing and some splitting on the female and sometimes the male. I took the female out and put her in her own tank because I'm afraid that they will kill each other and I don't want that to happen. I want them to mate but everytime I put her in his tank, I end up taking her out again because what they do to each other always looks like they're trying to kill each other or something (at least that's what it looks like to me). I know it's normal for the male to flare at the female because he's trying to attract her but what I don't know is when they nip or split each other's fins. Can someone tell me if this is normal or not? And when the female is pregnant or something, will she lay the eggs on her own or does she need the male to wrap around her and squeeze them out (I saw this in a video where the male has to wrap around and squeeze them out of the female)?

 

[blue_betta]

it is normal for the male to beat the female up yes, sometimes they get away with only a small amount of damage other times they get badly beaten up.

i think you need to do alot more research on how to breed them by the sound of it.

how big is the tank you are using?
are the pair in view of each other for some time before being introduced?
what kind of filter are you using?
what are you feeding the pair?
what decor (if any) is in the breeding tank?
is the feamle eggy (fat with eggs)?
look back thru some of the threads on here and you will find out more about breeding.

the female will lay eggs on her own but they will not be fertile, and this is usualy when she is "dumping" old eggs that are no longer viable to make way for fresh eggs. her eggs are fertilised outside her body

 

[nemosworld]

make sure you condition them properly and that the female has vertical bars and the male has a bubblenest when you put them together

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

If you want to breed your bettas I highly recommend reading ALL posts by Kyohti in this thread:

http/www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showt...9496&page=2

By far one of the most detailed breeding guides I've ever read.

 

[forg0tt3nang3l]

it is normal for the male to beat the female up yes, sometimes they get away with only a small amount of damage other times they get badly beaten up.

i think you need to do alot more research on how to breed them by the sound of it.

how big is the tank you are using?
are the pair in view of each other for some time before being introduced?
what kind of filter are you using?
what are you feeding the pair?
what decor (if any) is in the breeding tank?
is the feamle eggy (fat with eggs)?
look back thru some of the threads on here and you will find out more about breeding.

the female will lay eggs on her own but they will not be fertile, and this is usualy when she is "dumping" old eggs that are no longer viable to make way for fresh eggs. her eggs are fertilised outside her body

When you say "it's normal", does that mean they're not trying to kill each other and that it's ok to leave her in there when he does that?

How big is the tank? I use this one

. This is where I keep the male betta.
Are the pair in view of each other for some time before being introduced? Their tanks were right next to each other except the female's tank was a little smaller than the male's tank
What kind of filter are you using? I don't use a filter
What are you feeding the pair? Aquaculture betta pellet food: Color-Enhancing fish food
What decor (if any) is in the breeding tank? Just gravel and nothing else
Is the female eggy? I think so. She is fat but I don't know if she's eggy

When you say "fertile", does that mean it will just be an egg and not one of those guppy babies?

 

[forg0tt3nang3l]

make sure you condition them properly and that the female has vertical bars and the male has a bubblenest when you put them together

What do you mean by condition? I don't know about the vertical bars on the female, how would it look like? And my male does make a bubble nest but they're small bubbles instead of what I usually see in pictures

 

[K.J.]

What you need to do is take them out and research before you try to breed.



For starters, the pair must be conditioned a minimum of 2 weeks, this means frequent feedings of live/frozen food high in protein. It will prepare the male for spawning and make the female eggy. Without conditioning, they will kill each other. And also, DO NOT BREED PET SHOP FISH! Chances are this will discourage you now. You won't be able to find homes for 50+ fry, they're of worthless quality. The main reason people breed is to improve genetic qualities, and as pet shop fish are of bad quality, there is no point. If you want to breed buy a nice pair off **aquabid, this is still taking chances. I spent $55 dollars on a pair and the male is not building a bubblenest.

Secondly, you need a 10gl minimum filled with about 5 gallons of water, halfway fillled that is, with betta spa or IAL enhanced water. It must have a heater, and later on a sponge or corner filter for the fry. You need to cut a styrofoam cup inhalf lengthwise and tape it to a corner for the male to build his bubblenest on. You need fake or real plants for the female to hide in. You need a bare bottomed tank and it is hard to clean a gravel tank and fry will get stuck in the gravel pieces.

You need to keep the female in a glass chimney in the tank, until the male has a healthy bubblenest and the female is swimming downwards, showing vertical stripes (NOT HORIZONTAL!! That means | | | not -------)

Then you can release them and just hope everything goes right. They will get chase and nipped for a while, if any scales get ripped off condition for another week and then try again. If they do do it sucessfully they will go under the cup, embrace, the eggs will fall after a few and then the male (hopefully) goes to the bottom and picks them up, putting them in the nest. Sometimes he eats them. Meanwhile the female remains in a trancelike state until the next embrace.

For the fry you need LIVE foods like baby brine shrimp and microworms, ordered off of aquabid, enough to harvest tri daily. Read some articles on places like bettatalk.



**aquabid

 

[forg0tt3nang3l]

What you need to do is take them out and research before you try to breed.



For starters, the pair must be conditioned a minimum of 2 weeks, this means frequent feedings of live/frozen food high in protein. It will prepare the male for spawning and make the female eggy. Without conditioning, they will kill each other. And also, DO NOT BREED PET SHOP FISH! Chances are this will discourage you now. You won't be able to find homes for 50+ fry, they're of worthless quality. The main reason people breed is to improve genetic qualities, and as pet shop fish are of bad quality, there is no point. If you want to breed buy a nice pair off **aquabid, this is still taking chances. I spent $55 dollars on a pair and the male is not building a bubblenest.

Secondly, you need a 10gl minimum filled with about 5 gallons of water, halfway fillled that is, with betta spa or IAL enhanced water. It must have a heater, and later on a sponge or corner filter for the fry. You need to cut a styrofoam cup inhalf lengthwise and tape it to a corner for the male to build his bubblenest on. You need fake or real plants for the female to hide in. You need a bare bottomed tank and it is hard to clean a gravel tank and fry will get stuck in the gravel pieces.

You need to keep the female in a glass chimney in the tank, until the male has a healthy bubblenest and the female is swimming downwards, showing vertical stripes (NOT HORIZONTAL!! That means | | | not -------)

Then you can release them and just hope everything goes right. They will get chase and nipped for a while, if any scales get ripped off condition for another week and then try again. If they do do it sucessfully they will go under the cup, embrace, the eggs will fall after a few and then the male (hopefully) goes to the bottom and picks them up, putting them in the nest. Sometimes he eats them. Meanwhile the female remains in a trancelike state until the next embrace.

For the fry you need LIVE foods like baby brine shrimp and microworms, ordered off of aquabid, enough to harvest tri daily. Read some articles on places like bettatalk.



**aquabid

Why can't you breed pet shop fish, I know they're bad quality buy why else? I can't get anything off the internet so the pet shop is my only option. What do you mean by glass chimney? Do you mean like a tank with two sections or something, one for the male and one for the female where there's like a glass dividing them or something? Can I feed the fry non-live food like betta pellets? I can crush them up into little pieces.

 

[K.J.]

Most males will be a year or older, sold because their finnage is at their prime by then. By that age they're useless to breed. Veiltails, which is the most common tailtype in the store, are an already-abused type. There are enough unwanted veiltails in cups at the store. Sometimes the male don't build bubblenests or the females don't cooperate.

Glass chimney means

They're made for, I believe, kerogen lamps. You can buy them at a hardware store. No, betta fry will not eat pellet food. They will aso not eat "liquifry," "baby betta food," or any dry food made for baby fish. They need food that moves, and not just in the current. Wriggly food. Without it they won't survive. Most pet shops won't sell them, so you need to have them shipped to you. They don't cost very much, maybe 5 bucks for the microworms (which you only need to buy one culture off and divide them into three cultures, because they can only be harvested daily and bettas need tri-daily feedings) and 10 - 15 for the brine shrimp.

 

[nemosworld]

the only real reason to breed pet store bettas is to get practice and learn how their courtships work and how to raise the fry...

 

[garethusa]

just curious....

what is the difference between vertical and horizontal stripes?

vertical = ready for mating

horizontal = ?

 

[K.J.]

Horizontal means stress. Females get this when they aren't ready to see males, or are downright stressed. You see it a lot in sorority tanks, dunno why, mine always got it the first hours in the morning in the sorority tanks.

 

[forg0tt3nang3l]

Most males will be a year or older, sold because their finnage is at their prime by then. By that age they're useless to breed. Veiltails, which is the most common tailtype in the store, are an already-abused type. There are enough unwanted veiltails in cups at the store. Sometimes the male don't build bubblenests or the females don't cooperate.

Glass chimney means

They're made for, I believe, kerogen lamps. You can buy them at a hardware store. No, betta fry will not eat pellet food. They will aso not eat "liquifry," "baby betta food," or any dry food made for baby fish. They need food that moves, and not just in the current. Wriggly food. Without it they won't survive. Most pet shops won't sell them, so you need to have them shipped to you. They don't cost very much, maybe 5 bucks for the microworms (which you only need to buy one culture off and divide them into three cultures, because they can only be harvested daily and bettas need tri-daily feedings) and 10 - 15 for the brine shrimp.

You said it's useless to breed them but you didn't say you can't breed them so it is still possible to breed them, right? If you buy your fishes at pet stores, do they have to come from the same pet store? I got mine at different pet store. And where else can you get live food besides the internet? My mom won't let me get anything off the internet because she doesn't trust it with credit cards. Why can't they survive without live/wriggly food? You said that most pet stores won't have them but you didn't say all of them don't, so some pet stores will have live food, right? And you said they can't eat dry food but can they eat live-dead-frozen food, like frozen bloodworms or anything else that's frozen? They're not dry, they're still alive/dead but just frozen.

"(which you only need to buy one culture off and divide them into three cultures, because they can only be harvested daily and bettas need tri-daily feedings) and 10 - 15 for the brine shrimp."

What do you mean when you say that, the culture part and the harvest part? And when you say tri-daily or 10-15 feedings, You mean like three feedings a day or 10-15 a day, right?

How can you tell if the females have vertical or horizontal stripes? My female is pinkish yellow so I can't tell/see.

 

[Amerce]

The tank you are using the males for are much much too small to attempt to breed any fish, you need to get a reasonable 5 gallon tank at least, gives the male a chance and area to create a bubble nest and a female to go to when they have finished breeding.

If you really want to breed then the steps are -

1. condition the pair with lots of nutritious food (live or frozen)
2. introduce the male to the breeding tank the at least a day prior to the female being introduced (use Indian Almond leaf or blackwater extract to induce spawning and to help with the bubble nest), tank temp should be in the region of 27c.
3. introduce the female to the male (small clear plastic cup or a jam jar), this is so the female can view the male in safety and also so the male can see the female and really start to build a bubble nest = warning !!! do not just put the female into the tank, mating does not just happen because you have put the female into the tank it can take a couple of days or it just might not happen at all - I've had males that will just attack the female or vice a versa I could never get them to breed.
4. leave the female in the container overnight, as you say you have a light coloured female you will never see the vertical bars ( ||||| ), but you can tell sometimes by the position of her body, tail not flaring and nose down.
horiztonals bars ( ---- ) are stress indicators, which means she is not ready.
5. you can still feed them small amounts while they are in the breeding tank.

If the female looks ready you can go to the next phase

6. release the female gently into the breeding tank but keep an eye on them all the time as they have already shown some agression together.

If no real aggression is shown then you should be OK bit please keep an eye on them, if nothing happens that day leave them overnight keeping the tank temp constant, do not allow it to cool off.

I've come home from work the next day at lunch and found them spawning.

But as advised previously be warned the quality of the breeding pair is important, as many of the fry will be weak and possibly die, also you won't have a buyer if the stock are weedy looking.
Also you could end up with hundreds of unwanted babies, what do you plan on doing with them, feeder fish ???

Good luck but please research this better, and buy the proper equipment.

 

[jollysue]

If you managed to get fry, what would you feed them?

Bettas are not dogs that breed in alleys. You need more time to become better aquainted with the species in general.

A female Betta can also damage the male; it happens. Do you know how to care for a damaged Betta? Do you have IAL? Do you have meds in case there is a need. Just caring for and keeping Betta is a challenge.

Take your time and find out what it is all about. If you don't have the money for a decent pair, do you have the money to raise the fry?

Dead food rots. It will cause the fry to fungus. You have lots to learn about the basics of fish keeping.