Female Bolivian Ram Attacking Male And Scaring Other Fish!

[markyeldham]

Hi, I bought a pair of Bolivian Rams from Pets at home on Saturday (I don't usually buy from there but haven't seen them anywhere else). They were fine until Monday when the female (and yes she is definately female)started chasing the male whenever she saw him and even attacking him. He now stays in one corner of the 4ft tank occasionally coming out and getting chased off soon after. She has also started to scare (but not actually attack) the other fish such as the neon and cardinal tetras. Should I try and swap her or leave it for it to diffuse a bit? Or what could I do to stop this dominance?
Thanks,
Mark

 

[roadmaster]

Hi, I bought a pair of Bolivian Rams from Pets at home on Saturday (I don't usually buy from there but haven't seen them anywhere else). They were fine until Monday when the female (and yes she is definately female)started chasing the male whenever she saw him and even attacking him. He now stays in one corner of the 4ft tank occasionally coming out and getting chased off soon after. She has also started to scare (but not actually attack) the other fish such as the neon and cardinal tetras. Should I try and swap her or leave it for it to diffuse a bit? Or what could I do to stop this dominance?
Thanks,
Mark

I might try placing some decor in the tank to block the line of sight of both fishes.
Would also litter the bottom of the tank with caves made of rock or clay pots so that fishes aren't possibly limited to one or two such spots.
My hat's off to you if you can sex the bolivian rams accurately. Many of the fishes sold are relatively young, and fins /coloration don't always lend themselves to properly sexing them for these reasons (fins and coloration not fully developed or apparent). But if they are a pair..I would keep close eye on the aggressor. Often ,Male cichlids have little tolerance for a female that shows no interest in breeding, and Female cichlids will often show equally little tolerance for a smaller male, much preferring to mate with larger,more dominant male. Good Luck.

 

[hamfist]

Good answer Roadmaster.

My question to you, Mark, is ... what makes you so sure they are a male and female ? So many people, including experienced fishkeepers, make mistakes in sexing younger cichlids. The obvious response is that you possibly have two males. Or as Roadmatsre says, they could be M & F, but just not a happy, compatible pair.

 

[markyeldham]

I have used some online resourses and first of all the basic differences with size, and fins suggest I have a male and female (They weren't particularly small fish when I got them). The oviposior on the female is more rounded and points down while the male's is thinner and sharper and points backwards slightly. The body tapers upwards from the ovipositer to the anal fin in the female and down in the male.

Oh I don't know, maybe I got i wrong. But then should I try and exchange it for an actual female?
Here's a ln some photos I took:

http/www.flickr.com/photos/39015130@N04/?saved=1

 

[BethK]

Only dwarfs i can sex is apistos, so much easier

They are bottoms dwellers over all, break the floor up with things like slate caves, coconut huts. A dwarf cichlid keeper's best friend is a good piece of anubius on bogwood IMO they get to hide-out in the roots, here is a pic (just for an example of the roots);

excuse the bad java fern

My female apistos have set up their own territory in the tank, they have an option of 3 coconut-huts, breeding tube and a slate cave (made out of roof tiles) and there is no issue. As said above, block the line-of-sight and things should calm down.

 

[roadmaster]

I have used some online resourses and first of all the basic differences with size, and fins suggest I have a male and female (They weren't particularly small fish when I got them). The oviposior on the female is more rounded and points down while the male's is thinner and sharper and points backwards slightly. The body tapers upwards from the ovipositer to the anal fin in the female and down in the male.

Oh I don't know, maybe I got i wrong. But then should I try and exchange it for an actual female?
Here's a ln some photos I took:

http/www.flickr.com/photos/39015130@N04/?saved=1

If you are seeing the sexual organs of the fish and they are as described, then I would agree that they are likely a male and female. Usually don't see these (sexual organs)unless spawning is taking place.
With most of the cichlids it is often better to purchase a group of four to six and let them form a pair or pairs.
As mentioned above,,simply placing a pair of fish together whether they are a pair or not ,does not ensure that they will breed or even get along.They are often like people who usually prefer to select their own mates.
Would as mentioned,,provide some areas for the fish to retreat to if needed and add decor to break up their line's of sight.

 

[markyeldham]

Ok guys, I may get a couple more and see if they pair off. I will also try and break up the tank a bit but will the tank be big enough for 2 pairs (it is 4ft in length and 1ft in width). However the two I have at the moment only seem to occupy on half of the aquarium.

 

[karin]

Just for perspective. I have a pair that have spawned 3 times in a 29 gallon tank. They are only love-birds at times, other times ignore each other, other times aggress. Since I moved them to a much bigger tank, a 60 gallon, the female is quite aggressive toward the male. She chases him and lip locks. They seem to have picked two sides of the tank. I have lots of caves (but will add more). And I'm well planted. When I first got them the male did all the aggressing but they eventually mellowed out. I'm hoping for the same in this tank.

 

[markyeldham]

Ok cheers guys. Will try all of this and see if they calm down. (still not sure to get a couple more and see if they pair off). I got bolvian rams because I really could not look afterblue rams. It may have been the hard water or false siamese flying fox chasing them but these seem much easier but just more aggressive. Even if they are both males it is still the smaller of the two that is more aggressive. Can anyone recommend decent tank mates for them. I have:

4x neon tetras
4x cardinal tetras
2x pristella tetras (there were more)
2x female guppies
2x black widows (once again were more)
1x false siamese flying fox (had for years)
1x ghost catfish (also had for years)

Would corydoras go well as I haven't had them for a while since he peppered ones I bred died?

 

[roadmaster]

Ok cheers guys. Will try all of this and see if they calm down. (still not sure to get a couple more and see if they pair off). I got bolvian rams because I really could not look afterblue rams. It may have been the hard water or false siamese flying fox chasing them but these seem much easier but just more aggressive. Even if they are both males it is still the smaller of the two that is more aggressive. Can anyone recommend decent tank mates for them. I have:

4x neon tetras
4x cardinal tetras
2x pristella tetras (there were more)
2x female guppies
2x black widows (once again were more)
1x false siamese flying fox (had for years)
1x ghost catfish (also had for years)

Would corydoras go well as I haven't had them for a while since he peppered ones I bred died?

It has been only four days since the Bolivian rams were introduced and things may settle down within the coming days. I might give them some more time.
With respect to the corydoras, I would be hesitant to place them with the rams if breeding the rams is your aim at some point.
In my expierience the cory's are either (a) incredibly stupid, or (b) stubbornly determined with respect to egg sites or nests of other fishes.
I have seen them repeatedly invade the area's that Cichlids are protecting and get soundly thrashed for their intrusions only to return for more of the same.
My own belief is, that eggs produce scent that makes cory's keenly aware that eggs are there and they would happily eat them as they do their own if it were not for the attacks from the parents.

 

[markyeldham]

I wasn't planning on breeding particularly, I just wanted a nice pair that would not ATTACK EACHOTHER lol I did finds out that Kribensis absolutely detest corys even when not breeding and that you can leave peppered cory eggs in with the adults in a well planted tank and some will survive to adulthood.

Ok, I have a diver's helmet cave but do I put it at the end they are or end they aren't?
cheers

 

[roadmaster]

I wasn't planning on breeding particularly, I just wanted a nice pair that would not ATTACK EACHOTHER lol I did finds out that Kribensis absolutely detest corys even when not breeding and that you can leave peppered cory eggs in with the adults in a well planted tank and some will survive to adulthood.

Ok, I have a diver's helmet cave but do I put it at the end they are or end they aren't?
cheers

You could in my view, place the cave where ever you like. The key is to provide several such places so that the fish don't squabble over one or two such places.
For many cichlids,it's all about territories.

 

[hamfist]

Mark,
It's difficult to tell for absolute sure from your photos about the sexing of your fish. What I can say is that your tank seems to have plenty of background plants but is perhaps rather short in the way of general bottom "hardware", things like wood, rocks, pots, roots etc. THese are the sorts of things that territorial fish such as cichlids really like, to establish their own little territory, and also to escape from others.
As Roasdmaster says, it doesn't really matter where you place these, so long as there are enough of them spread around the tank.

 

[markyeldham]

Ok thanks, I'll try and get some more of these. Maybe not pots though as they could make my water even harder! That feathery plant stuff grows like wildfire!

 

[karin]

Mark,

I posted above about my female ram being just terrible to the male. I thought their love affair over. Well today they are swimming together, googoo eyes and in breeding colors and her breeding tube is puffing up. I think the fighting is just cichlids. By the way, when these two have spawned they were not particularly aggressive other then just making it clear that no one was to come close. They never touched the corys as far as I know.

Good luck.