Feeding My Needlefish While Away On Vacation

[JerryINva]

We have recently tranfered our needlefish into his own 10 gallon tank since his compatibility with a couple of others in our 50 gallon community wasn't the greatest. We are going to be out of town for about 3-4 days next week and dont have anyone who can drop by to feed him. We have automatic feeders that our local shop recomended that said the large community would be fine with for that amount of time, but I'm stuck on what to do with the needlefish.

I had an idea of just putting the amount of live feeders he eats in that amount of time into his tank and he could eat at well. I've learned that they are gorgers in some way and will eat enough to be full, then not eat for a while. There are no other fish in his tank that will steal his live feeders, so there isnt that to worry about either. Since I really have no other option, like having someone stop by to feed him, does this sound like an okay idea?

 

[GuppyDude]

How big is he? He wont be able to live in that 10g for very long.

How are you feeding him live food with an automatic feeder?

Most fish are good for a long period of time without food, and if needle fish prove to be the same way, its best he not eat at all while your away.

 

[nmonks]

This is a terrible idea. A healthy fish, particularly a predator, can go a couple of weeks if not more without food. So forget about leaving live food in. Just leave the fish alone.

As I've said repeatedly on this forum, Xenentodon cancila is not a fish eater. It rarely eats fish in the wild. The correct diet is crustaceans and insects. Since obtaining safe, healthy, and nutritionally balanced mealworms, crickets, and river shrimp is easier than obtaining safe, healthy, and nutritionally balanced feeder fish, to me this is a no-brainer. Anyone who insists on sticking feeder fish into a needlefish aquarium either likes taking risks or enjoys wasting money.

They are NOT gorgers. One look at them should make that clear. Gorgers are typically big, slow-moving predators that lunge at big prey when the chance is there, but otherwise expend very little energy the rest of the time. Predatory catfish and snakeheads are classic examples. Needlefish live in rivers (and the sea, obviously) where they move constantly, swimming into the current. They feed on small prey, more or less all the time. Xenentodon cancila is apparently taking freshwater crustaceans of various sorts, presumably shrimps, small crabs, etc. It has a narrow body totally unsuitable for storing large amounts of food. What goes in comes out the other end pretty quickly. Compare that to a catfish or snakehead that sits there and digests a big meal slowly.

Now all that said, the real issue here is that there is no way at all you can keep Xenentodon cancila in a 10 gallon tank. None. A 10 gallon tank is not big enough for halfbeaks, let alone needlefish. Sooner or later it will freak out, and throw itself into the glass. Once damaged, these fish just don't seem to recover easily, and many are lost to secondary infections. Given needlefish are best kept in groups, the 50 gallon tank is obviously the aquarium to use here.

I hope this helps,

Neale

We have recently tranfered our needlefish into his own 10 gallon tank since his compatibility with a couple of others in our 50 gallon community wasn't the greatest. We are going to be out of town for about 3-4 days next week and dont have anyone who can drop by to feed him. We have automatic feeders that our local shop recomended that said the large community would be fine with for that amount of time, but I'm stuck on what to do with the needlefish.

I had an idea of just putting the amount of live feeders he eats in that amount of time into his tank and he could eat at well. I've learned that they are gorgers in some way and will eat enough to be full, then not eat for a while. There are no other fish in his tank that will steal his live feeders, so there isnt that to worry about either. Since I really have no other option, like having someone stop by to feed him, does this sound like an okay idea?

 

[JerryINva]

As I've said repeatedly on this forum, Xenentodon cancila is not a fish eater. It rarely eats fish in the wild. The correct diet is crustaceans and insects. Since obtaining safe, healthy, and nutritionally balanced mealworms, crickets, and river shrimp is easier than obtaining safe, healthy, and nutritionally balanced feeder fish, to me this is a no-brainer. Anyone who insists on sticking feeder fish into a needlefish aquarium either likes taking risks or enjoys wasting money.

And wolves dont eat kibbles and bits in the wild either. But we give the domesticated versions, aka dogs, that and they do just fine. Our needle has lived off feeders for over 5 months and is perfectly healthy. I can angree with what you say about the health risk there is, but one can assume that there are risks just as great in feeding it other live food other than feeders.

And to say they aren't predators isn't exactly correct. He is very well fed, but has still taken down a couple of fish from the community he was originally in. (granted, they probably shouldnt have been mixed with him and that was a lesson learned) But he definatley has predatory instincts.

 

[poopsydrew]

As I've said repeatedly on this forum, Xenentodon cancila is not a fish eater. It rarely eats fish in the wild. The correct diet is crustaceans and insects. Since obtaining safe, healthy, and nutritionally balanced mealworms, crickets, and river shrimp is easier than obtaining safe, healthy, and nutritionally balanced feeder fish, to me this is a no-brainer. Anyone who insists on sticking feeder fish into a needlefish aquarium either likes taking risks or enjoys wasting money.

And wolves dont eat kibbles and bits in the wild either. But we give the domesticated versions, aka dogs, that and they do just fine. Our needle has lived off feeders for over 5 months and is perfectly healthy. I can angree with what you say about the health risk there is, but one can assume that there are risks just as great in feeding it other live food other than feeders.

And to say they aren't predators isn't exactly correct. He is very well fed, but has still taken down a couple of fish from the community he was originally in. (granted, they probably shouldnt have been mixed with him and that was a lesson learned) But he definatley has predatory instincts.

-The risk of disease with what Neale has listed is extremely small compared to that of feeders. And if you havent gut-loaded your feeders (Im assuming you use goldfish or some minnows) then your giving him the wrong diet anyway. And I wouldnt call a needlefish Domesticated like a dog.
-Neale never said they werent predators, in fact he said it was if you re-read the above, to make his point that predators can go weeks without food.
-Just so you know, Neale is probably the most educated and respected member on this forum when it comes to fish. I dont need to list all of his backings, but he has many degrees in the field and also wrties for the aquarium magazine Tropical Fish Hobbyist. He is probably the last person you want to argue this subject with, and besides, he gave you correct and good information, take it or leave it.

Drew

 

[JerryINva]

[/quote]
-The risk of disease with what Neale has listed is extremely small compared to that of feeders. And if you havent gut-loaded your feeders (Im assuming you use goldfish or some minnows) then your giving him the wrong diet anyway. And I wouldnt call a needlefish Domesticated like a dog.
-Neale never said they werent predators, in fact he said it was if you re-read the above, to make his point that predators can go weeks without food.
-Just so you know, Neale is probably the most educated and respected member on this forum when it comes to fish. I dont need to list all of his backings, but he has many degrees in the field and also wrties for the aquarium magazine Tropical Fish Hobbyist. He is probably the last person you want to argue this subject with, and besides, he gave you correct and good information, take it or leave it.

Drew
[/quote]


By all means I was in no way trying to "argue" with someone. Just pointing out that what doesnt work for one person, might work for another. All the degrees and resumes in the world dont really account for that. This person says not to feed them feeders, but there are a lot of articles on the web as well as shop hands that say its fine or even recomend it. But thanks to those who have given their input...it will be taken into consideration!!

 

[JerryINva]

They are NOT gorgers. One look at them should make that clear. Gorgers are typically big, slow-moving predators that lunge at big prey when the chance is there, but otherwise expend very little energy the rest of the time. Predatory catfish and snakeheads are classic examples. Needlefish live in rivers (and the sea, obviously) where they move constantly, swimming into the current. They feed on small prey, more or less all the time. Xenentodon cancila is apparently taking freshwater crustaceans of various sorts, presumably shrimps, small crabs, etc. It has a narrow body totally unsuitable for storing large amounts of food. What goes in comes out the other end pretty quickly. Compare that to a catfish or snakehead that sits there and digests a big meal slowly.

Hmmm....interesting what you can find with a little research on the subject!

from Needlefish and halfbeaks: fishes that go straight to the point
An introduction to the Beloniformes
by Neale Monks

http/www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/belonids.htm

"Adult needlefish are gorgers: they will eat lots one day, and hardly anything the next. This is quite normal, and actually a lot like many other large predatory fish."

 

[nmonks]

Listen my friend, I'm not trying to diss your fishkeeping skills. I'm merely pointing out a few things to make your life easier.

You can't keep a needlefish in a 10 gallon tank. End of story. It's not even a temporary option. While I'm pleased you read my article on them over at Wet Web Media, it's more important you focus on the basics of needlefish care than fixate on whether or not they are gorgers, which is a pretty trivial issue given most people feed them daily anyway. Speaking of which, so I change my mind on something? I'm not pig-headed, and when I learn new things or people explain my mistakes, I fix them. My job as a professional fishkeeping writer is to try and communicate the current state of the art to my readers. I can't do that if I stick with what I learned in 1980 and never move on.

I didn't say feeder fish were cruel and you were wrong to use them because of this. I happen to be against the use of feeder fish for ethical reasons, but I didn't say that here. My issues with feeder fish for use with needlefish are basically these:

• Firstly, they don't eat fish (much) in the wild. They eat crustaceans. So arguing goldfish and minnows are a "natural diet" for them is silly.
• Secondly, feeder fish, unless you breed your own, are a disease risk. I help out on the question desks of various fishkeeping magazines and it would shock you how often we get letters and e-mails about predatory fish that develop intestinal worms and bacterial infections from being given feeder fish. While one or two feeder fish meals might not do any harm, and might be a good way to help a predatory fish settle into captivity, over the years the risk increases.
• Finally, if you use rosy-red minnows or goldfish you are exposing predatory fish to high levels of fat, which causes internal organ problems, and thiaminase, which destroys vitamin B1. The only safe feeders are livebearers, preferably bred yourself and gut-loaded with algae. The algae is important, because predatory fish depend on the gut-contents of their prey for vitamins absent from meat alone (just the same as why we need fruit/vegetables for things like vitamin C).

Given needlefish don't eat fish in the wild anyway, why not simply go with safer, healthier, cheaper alternatives? Crickets, mealworms, and river shrimps are all cheap and easy to obtain and very safe and nutritious. You even get the fun of seeing one animal destroy another if that's your thing. But if you want to train your needlefish to take frozen foods, that's entirely possible and makes for the healthiest livestock. You can then use practically any chunky seafood or lancefish to feed your needlefish without the fuss of obtaining live food or rearing safe feeder fish.

You are completely wrong about other live foods having the same risks as feeder fish. While there are small risks associated with certain invertebrates, particularly Tubifex worms, for the most part any risks are negligible. Crickets and mealworms are reared to be basically safe since that's what the reptile keepers want. They are fed on terrestrial plant material, so the odds of some freshwater or marine parasite getting into them is practically zero. River shrimps are collected (at least here in England) from cool, brackish water estuaries, and because of this any parasites they carry aren't ones adapted to living in tropical freshwater fish. As such they're essentially safe. Compare this with a goldfish or rosy-red or cheap guppy. These are all reared and held in overcrowded tanks with no healthcare at all. Being freshwater fish, any parasites they carry are very likely to be ones that can live in tropical fish.

Needlefish are lovely animals but many (most?) have short lives in captivity. They are schooling fish for a start, and you've only got one. They feed on insects, and you're feeding yours on feeder fish. They need a big tank so they don't harm themselves, and you're keeping your specimen in a 10 gallon tank. It's time to stop playing games and focus on the needs of this fish. Otherwise it'll be dead sooner rather than later.

Cheers, Neale

 

[cane76]

ive kept these fish and neale is absolutely right
sounds like the right thing to do is return it to your lfs