Feeder Fish

[andywg]

So T1tan, I need to get this straight before I put any effort into a more full response on your comments which are the closest to trolling yet on this post:

You advocate the feeding of live fish as it is natural, but offer a completely unnatural prey fish that is so deficient in its nutritional make up it is damaging to the health of the predator?

I assume you advocate buying pet bunnies to feed to dogs as well?

 

[The-Wolf]

Do you only eat prepared food?

yes, seeing as I don't go out and hunt for my own food, unless you count going to a supermarket as hunting.
every piece of food you eat is prepared in some way. you don't pull a potato out the ground and eat it raw and with dirt on it do you.
no you prepare it in some way.
No but we eat fruits fresh from the tree and vegies from the garden. ;;

again, you may do I do not.
what you seem to be staing is your opinion and that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I'm not asking for opinions but for reason why people use feeders.

 

[t1tanrush]

So T1tan, I need to get this straight before I put any effort into a more full response on your comments which are the closest to trolling yet on this post:

You advocate the feeding of live fish as it is natural, but offer a completely unnatural prey fish that is so deficient in its nutritional make up it is damaging to the health of the predator?

I assume you advocate buying pet bunnies to feed to dogs as well?

Lol, trolling ? Wow, considering anytime I disagree with any set fish keeping " rule " I get 10 posters on me I wouldn't consider me voicing my opinion as trolling. Frankly your trolling me now.. I am saying that yes an unatural fish is better than a pellet. Its closer than a pellet to their normal prey item and NOT ALL FEEDERS ARE DEFICIENT IN NUTRIENTS!. Hate to break your bubble but there are a lot of healthy feeder fish, my use of minnows/goldfish may not be the best choice, but they aren't all bad.
No pet bunnies for dogs no, but I'm sure many dogs have caught and killed animals in their lives. If you think feeder fish is so humane you better keep your cats inside so they don't catch a mouse, infact crate them, one may get in!

Do you only eat prepared food?

yes, seeing as I don't go out and hunt for my own food, unless you count going to a supermarket as hunting.
every piece of food you eat is prepared in some way. you don't pull a potato out the ground and eat it raw and with dirt on it do you.
no you prepare it in some way.
No but we eat fruits fresh from the tree and vegies from the garden. ;;

again, you may do I do not.
what you seem to be staing is your opinion and that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I'm not asking for opinions but for reason why people use feeders.

Yes I am stating why I use feeder fish. I'm not here to explain for everyone because a lot of people that use them only use them for the stubborn fish, and I disagree with that. I'm representing a different side of this (on my own frankly) as I don't think many promote such extreme use as I do.

 

[Rhykiru]

is there seriously a healthy feeder fish with good nutricional value? im not trying to be sarcastic or anything because minnows/goldfish (like you said you used) are really the only "feeder fish" i see on the market

 

[t1tanrush]

is there seriously a healthy feeder fish with good nutricional value? im not trying to be sarcastic or anything because minnows/goldfish (like you said you used) are really the only "feeder fish" i see on the market

Feeder fish constitutes any fish that is used as food for another living creature. Thus a convict thats been gut loaded is a healthy feeder fish etc.

 

[jourdy288]

There is nothing wrong with feeder fish. It is the way of nature, because in nature, fish get eaten. Some fish that won't accept frozen fish and only live fish, well, there is no problem with that. But, to enjoy watching something die is a problem. To enjoy a predators skill is quite another. I feel bad for those goldfish, knowing how good friends they become(my uncle had a goldfish in a five gal. for 20 yrs.!) but I understand that sooner or later, somebodys gotta eat. If you can give frozen fish, then be it. But if nott, then use live. Plain and simple.

 

[Viettxboii]

There is nothing wrong with feeder fish. It is the way of nature, because in nature, fish get eaten. Some fish that won't accept frozen fish and only live fish, well, there is no problem with that. But, to enjoy watching something die is a problem. To enjoy a predators skill is quite another. I feel bad for those goldfish, knowing how good friends they become(my uncle had a goldfish in a five gal. for 20 yrs.!) but I understand that sooner or later, somebodys gotta eat. If you can give frozen fish, then be it. But if nott, then use live. Plain and simple.

I agree

 

[severum boy]

For 98% of cases, I am against feeders. Most fish will go over to pellets fine. But they have their place. Butterfly fish are a good example. I brought a trio about 6 months ago, and for the first few months, all they ate were crickets. They woudent touch the pellets I put in fot the other fish. One day, one dicided to try a pellet and found it quite tasty. He put on a spurt of growth and is now much bigger than the others who started to take pellets only a couple of months ago. This provides some evidence that pellets are more nutrutional than the average feeder food, something some people dont realise. Now they are all on pellets, I dont use feeders. So yes they have their place with fish that wont eat anthing else.

They may go over to pellets fine and it may be more " nutricious " but It's not normal food, its processed ground up fish. I'd rather have a slower growing fish thats eating something it would normally eat then a fish picking pellets.. Watching a fish eat pellets = boring, waste of time. Watching them eat live fish = interesting. Seriously throw away your pellets and get good live feeders !

Ok, how many different fish do you feed your carnivores? From what you have said, I will assume 2, Goldfish and RR minnows. Now concider how many different fish your predator would eat in the wild. Chances are its more than two so it will get lots of different nutrients from different fish, fats and protiens (my assumption) from sedimentary Gobys for instance. Now yes, some fish do eat a very limited number and varity of fish, but again there will be varients in what the fish ate before it itself was eaten. This will be the equilavent of gut loading a fish. So it follows that the predator then gets different nutrients baced on what the different fish it eats, ate.

This in return supports gut loading. Flakes and pellets for fish are formulated to provide a wholy nutritious food for the fish that does not need anything with it, although gut loading with a number of different foods is the best option for fish health.

 

[t1tanrush]

For 98% of cases, I am against feeders. Most fish will go over to pellets fine. But they have their place. Butterfly fish are a good example. I brought a trio about 6 months ago, and for the first few months, all they ate were crickets. They woudent touch the pellets I put in fot the other fish. One day, one dicided to try a pellet and found it quite tasty. He put on a spurt of growth and is now much bigger than the others who started to take pellets only a couple of months ago. This provides some evidence that pellets are more nutrutional than the average feeder food, something some people dont realise. Now they are all on pellets, I dont use feeders. So yes they have their place with fish that wont eat anthing else.

They may go over to pellets fine and it may be more " nutricious " but It's not normal food, its processed ground up fish. I'd rather have a slower growing fish thats eating something it would normally eat then a fish picking pellets.. Watching a fish eat pellets = boring, waste of time. Watching them eat live fish = interesting. Seriously throw away your pellets and get good live feeders !

Ok, how many different fish do you feed your carnivores? From what you have said, I will assume 2, Goldfish and RR minnows. Now concider how many different fish your predator would eat in the wild. Chances are its more than two so it will get lots of different nutrients from different fish, fats and protiens (my assumption) from sedimentary Gobys for instance. Now yes, some fish do eat a very limited number and varity of fish, but again there will be varients in what the fish ate before it itself was eaten. This will be the equilavent of gut loading a fish. So it follows that the predator then gets different nutrients baced on what the different fish it eats, ate.

This in return supports gut loading. Flakes and pellets for fish are formulated to provide a wholy nutritious food for the fish that does not need anything with it, although gut loading with a number of different foods is the best option for fish health.

Yes I use the 2 common ones aswell as many other foods, I have a drawer full of different foods I give to my fish/frog to make sure it gets a complete and healthy diet.

 

[severum boy]

Ah, now ACF are opportunist feeders, coming out to grab whatever is in front of them. To keep this natural, you should be feeding at least 5 different fish from its natural habitat.

 

[t1tanrush]

lol, now your going a bit extreme. Its not simply logical to provide 5 different fish. For one cost would be tremendous. Your pretty much saying " Feed all its natural prey or none of it ". I instead try to feed what is as close to natural as I can get, along with adding in pellets to make up for what I can't provide. I do offer lots of prey to my ACF including pinkie mice, crickets, 2 different fish, pellets, turtle fish/shrimp, worms....

 

[severum boy]

lol, now your going a bit extreme. Its not simply logical to provide 5 different fish. For one cost would be tremendous. Your pretty much saying " Feed all its natural prey or none of it ". I instead try to feed what is as close to natural as I can get, along with adding in pellets to make up for what I can't provide. I do offer lots of prey to my ACF including pinkie mice, crickets, 2 different fish, pellets, turtle fish/shrimp, worms....

I dont think it was that extreme. But by adding synthetic foods it is therefor unnatural. For people whos fish dont accept any form of dead foods, live fishes are needed and gutloaded ones are fine. But why go to the expence and time to rear the fish if you are still providing a fake diet for them, whilst still trying to unsucessfully say that it is close to natural.

 

[andywg]

Lol, trolling ? Wow, considering anytime I disagree with any set fish keeping " rule " I get 10 posters on me I wouldn't consider me voicing my opinion as trolling. Frankly your trolling me now..

Not really. The discussion had been devoid of passion and presented in a mature fashion without comments along the lines of "What else are we supposed to do with comet goldfish? They aren't very intresting fish".

I am saying that yes an unatural fish is better than a pellet. Its closer than a pellet to their normal prey item and NOT ALL FEEDERS ARE DEFICIENT IN NUTRIENTS!. Hate to break your bubble but there are a lot of healthy feeder fish, my use of minnows/goldfish may not be the best choice, but they aren't all bad.

But the ones you choose are pretty much horrendous form a nutritional point of view. I refer you to nmonks pinned feeder FAQ on the problems with feeding goldfish to predators.

Goldfish and rosy red minnows can be easy to breed, but they suffer from being high in the chemical thiaminase. They must not be used as the staple diet, because over time they will prevent the predatory fish from having enough vitamin B1, which will cause serious health problems. The muscles, bones, and nerves appear to be most seriously affected.

I have no problem with the use of feeder fish. If you really want to feed live go for it, but at least research into them enough to realise that goldfish should be off the menu of every tropical fish.

No pet bunnies for dogs no

Why not? Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander? Can you not see the hypocrisy here? Feeding a dog a pet bunny is closer to nature than just a tin of dog meat.

but I'm sure many dogs have caught and killed animals in their lives. If you think feeder fish is so humane you better keep your cats inside so they don't catch a mouse, infact crate them, one may get in!

Strangely enough my cats are kept indoors, but that is more to do with living on a main road in a council estate area and having paid so much for them. I assume you would intentionally purchase a live mouse for any cats you would be entrusted to care for as that is closer to nature than a packet of Whiskas?

 

[t1tanrush]

Lol, I'm aware of thaimenese problem, I hear it with my snakes to, but as long as other food is supplemented often its fine. I never said keep comets/rosies as a staple now did I? Also- No I don't go get a bunny for my dog, for one its expensive and it creates problems, don't want my dog getting loose and eating someones pet do I? BTW I don't keep cats and don't plan to ever.

 

[Lhutch]

its a natural cycle of life,im vegan/vegitarian and i dont care if i feed my moray feeders, things will always be predators and u have to get used that if ur not now