Paul_MTS do you have a flower horn or have you ever owned one?Disgusting, if i had a fish develop a lump like that i'd stick it in a bath of clove oil
CFC do you have a flower horn or have you ever owned one?
Do you think that after making a comment like that i'd ever consider sticking a hybrid in one of my tanks?
Even if someone offered me a £14000 flowerhorn for free i wouldnt take it, or maybe i would so i could euthanise it to take it out of the gene pool.
I even refuse to use shops that sell parrot fish and flowerhorns i am so against them.
Oh sorry CFC I just thought in order for you to dislike them so much that you must have owned one to see what they are like.
/dictionary.reference.com/search?q=species)." So, assuming flowerhorns are capable of mating and producing offspring (correct me if this is incorrect), flowerhorns are, by definition, a species.
I personally dislike flowerhorns - I dislike hybrids, period. A lot of people feel this way, and perhaps it's because flowerhorns are such a new development.
But consider the histories of fancy goldfish, koi, bettas, and probably a bunch of other so-called "species." These animals, offered for sale at your LFS, are no longer pure breeds. Yet these varieties of fish are generally "accepted" by hobbyists without much thought as to their origins.
Also consider the fact that a species is defined as "a fundamental category of taxonomic classification, ranking below a genus or subgenus and consisting of related organisms capable of interbreeding (http
I'm not trying to advocate or denounce flowerhorns. Just throwing some ideas out for discussion.
Let's keep it civil. =)
I hate to get all sciencey on you, but bettas and fancy goldfish are in most cases pure breeds. They are line bred to achieve their looks, not hybridized, just like different breeds of dog look different but are all the same species. Most bettas probably do have some Betta imbellis in their background, but it's usually so far back in the ancestry that it's not even worth mentioning, especially when we start talking about fancy long-finned varieties. Breeders don't usually cross to other species this far down the line because they're going for fancy fins and colours and the "drab" wild-type fish just aren't part of the program.I personally dislike flowerhorns - I dislike hybrids, period. A lot of people feel this way, and perhaps it's because flowerhorns are such a new development.
But consider the histories of fancy goldfish, koi, bettas, and probably a bunch of other so-called "species." These animals, offered for sale at your LFS, are no longer pure breeds. Yet these varieties of fish are generally "accepted" by hobbyists without much thought as to their origins.
Also consider the fact that a species is defined as "a fundamental category of taxonomic classification, ranking below a genus or subgenus and consisting of related organisms capable of interbreeding (http
I'm not trying to advocate or denounce flowerhorns. Just throwing some ideas out for discussion.
Let's keep it civil. =)
I hate to get all sciencey on you, but bettas and fancy goldfish are in most cases pure breeds. They are line bred to achieve their looks, not hybridized, just like different breeds of dog look different but are all the same species. Most bettas probably do have some Betta imbellis in their background, but it's usually so far back in the ancestry that it's not even worth mentioning, especially when we start talking about fancy long-finned varieties. Breeders don't usually cross to other species this far down the line because they're going for fancy fins and colours and the "drab" wild-type fish just aren't part of the program.
Flowerhorns are not a species, and probably never will be. There is not set definition for makes an organism qualify as a species; the ability to produce viable offspring is only part of it. It's really pretty arbitrary. As my evolution professor said, "Fill a room with biologists and tell them they can't come out until they agree on a definition of species and you'll have a bloodbath." While we can't define what makes a species a species, something becomes a species when it is officially scientificially described -- in other words, given its taxonomic classification, as per the definition you gave. As I said, because flowerhorns are hybrids, this is not likely to happen; there are plenty of other naturally occurring species that haven't even been described yet. Wolf-dogs can usually produce offspring too, but they are not and will never be a species
Edit: This doesn't have anything to do with the topic really, but I feel like ranting since I'm on a roll. Just ignore it unless you care about biology
Hybrid plants, unlike animals, do become their own species much more frequently. This is because plants can tolerate polyploidy (having a base number of chromosomes greater than "normal") much better. Animals generally only carry two sets of chromosomes, with three copies of even one chromosome usually being lethal (except in the case of Down syndrome and sex chromosome abnormalities). However, plants can easy have three or more copies of every chromosome, but with an uneven number they are infertile. When plants successfully hybridize, it is often by getting one set of chromosomes from one parent and by mutation of either the seed or pollen, getting two complete sets from the other parent. These plants can live just fine, but are infertile. However, they can reproduce by pieces breaking off and rooting and such, and eventually a plant can emerge where the chromosomes are doubled so that it has 6 complete sets.... and voila, it is fertile! This is now a plant that can reproduce with others of its kind, but usually not with either of the parental species, which is one reason it is more likely to qualify as a species of its own. So in the plant kingdom new species can occur literally overnight!
/www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auc...horn&1134002229 
Ooooh, so you have bettas too, do you? Come on, start a new thread... let's see them!I'm a good sport though. I can't blame people who doesn't like Flower Horns because like what I have said we all have different preferences.
I prefer Flower Horns and Bettas than other fish pets. I've been in the fish hobby for morethan 15 years and I find FHs and Bettas are the fishes that interest me (Aside from my Piranhas, and Guppies).
I just love them
Ooooh, so you have bettas too, do you? Come on, start a new thread... let's see them!I'm a good sport though. I can't blame people who doesn't like Flower Horns because like what I have said we all have different preferences.
I prefer Flower Horns and Bettas than other fish pets. I've been in the fish hobby for morethan 15 years and I find FHs and Bettas are the fishes that interest me (Aside from my Piranhas, and Guppies).
I just love them
THATS NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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