Dwarf Cichlid Buddies For Rams?

[magpie]

Hey there,

I have a 65 gallon, and at some point plan on adding a pair of Blue or Bolivian Rams. (As yet to be determined). I love dwarf cichlids and would like to add another pair to the tank with the Rams.

What experience do you all have with Rams and their fellow cichlids?

I have read that Apisto. Cacatuoides are a good match, and that Kribs would likely be too aggressive for the Rams.

Any other suggestions?
Other Apistos?
Any different Pelvicachromis species that might work, since P. Pulcher probably won't?
Anyone I'm missing? Or should I just get more than 1 pair Rams?

My LFS has a great variety of healthy fish so I am lucky there.

Thanks!

 

[Wills]

Hi I would go with Bolivians 100% as they are more adaptable and mixable than Blues as Blues need high temperatures.

With Bolivians you have tons of options - all the Apisto species would work all of the Laetacaras would work and even a group of Cupid Cichlids would go well In a 65 gallon you could even move upto larger species as well I have heard of people having success with Rotkiel Severums and Bolivians.

Wills

 

[magpie]

I have done blues in the past, and I think they're adorable, but now reading on them, I probably will go with the Bolivians.

I like the way the Apistos work over the Laetacaras. I do want to have smaller fish also (forktail rainbows and maybe clown killifish) so am not sure the larger guys would work.

What kind of personality do the Apistos have?

I have many choices at my LFS - it's actually a bit overwhelming. Any differences in personality between the species, or other qualities? If not, I'll just pick which I think is the prettiest.
Do you think one pair Apisto, one pair Rams?

Apistogramma, agassizi "Double Red", 1.5", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cf. agassizi netz "Tefe Pearl Blue", 1.5", $17.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, baenschi "Inka", 1", $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, bitaeniata , 1.25", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, borelli "Blue", 1.5", $10.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, borelli "Opal", 1.25", $12.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cacatuoides "Double Red", 1.25", $12.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cacatuoides "Orange Flash", 1.5", $12.50 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cacatuoides WILD Peru, 1.25", $8.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, cruzi WILD Peru, 1.25", $8.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Kelleri" "Diamond Face", 1.75", $50.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, diplotaenia, 1", $50.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, elizabethae, 1.25", $45.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, eunotus "Blue Cheek", 1.25", $12.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, eunotus "Blue Cheek" WILD Peru, 1.5", $8.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, hongloi , 1.25", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, mendezi, 1", $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, nijsseni, 1.5", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, panduro , 1", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Pebas", 1"+, $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, pertensis, 1", $12.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Rotpunkt", 1.5", $10.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, trifasciata, 1.5", $12.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, sp. "Tucurui", 1.25", $15.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed
Apistogramma, uaupesi, 1.25", $20.00 , Pair's Not Guaranteed

 

[gatorsean]

laetacara dorsiger or curviceps would work and they are cheaper and easier to find than most apistos

 

[Joller]

pick which one you think is the prettiest and then do some research on it to make sure you can meet their requirements, some apistos are easier to keep in good health than others.

 

[magpie]

laetacara dorsiger or curviceps would work and they are cheaper and easier to find than most apistos

Well, I looked those guys up and prefer the look of the apistos generally speaking. And as you can see I don't have to worry about easy to find...

pick which one you think is the prettiest and then do some research on it to make sure you can meet their requirements, some apistos are easier to keep in good health than others.

That's probably what I'll do I guess. Maybe next time I head over to the store, I'll write down my favorites and then come home and read up on them and hope they're not the ones that are harder to keep or are not as suited for lives with Rams.

 

[kribensis12]

There is so much room in that tank that you could load it with Apistos. As long as your keep the water in good condition you shouldn't worry about what kind you put in there nor how many. It they are labeled as apistogramma then odds are they will get along with any other apisto.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I liek the Severum idea that wills had. I have a pair of severums and they are so chill that they even get along with my jewel cichlid. Really neat fish to watch as well. The only thing is they get to be 9-12 inches.

 

[magpie]

Get along with other apisto, but I want to know about rams. Do you think the same applies? I was told 4 rams max in a 65 gallon, do apostle need less space?

 

[kribensis12]

Haha, whomever told you that you could only have 4 rams in a 65g is crazy. The general rule of thumb per cichlids is 1 inch per 2 gallons. If we assume that each ram is 4 inches, you could fit 14 or so in there. I would hesitate to say that you could place 16 rams in there, plus a few angels/discus in that tank. Rams occupy the bottom territory. As long as you provide PLENTY of rock and wood work for them to create their own territories. Angels and Discus tend to occupy higher levels of the tank. If I am adding more than 1 pair of species I tend to make sure there are at least 2 caves per pair to ensure that everyone has a home.

 

[magpie]

Really? That seems like an extraordinarily high number of cichlids. I have a 3-ft tank, unfortunately, so there is less of a footprint for them to stake out in the bottom - and that's where they primarily like to hang out, at least the bottom third. So I can't see how I can count the top of the tank as gallons for rams or apistos.... I was told that a pair of rams could take up as much room as one female apisto, so due to that I assumed that I could have a pair each of rams/apistos.

I will definitely provide plenty of plants and rocks/wood.

I'm not interested in angels, discus seem to be too large, as do severum. I was planning on having smaller guys like cardinal tetras, forktail rainbows, clown killis.... but I'm not set on fish. Have done no research on discus and severum... might have to peek around.

There's so much conflicting info out there, it can get a bit confusing.

 

[kribensis12]

I understand, there is a lot of different info out there. The key for putting that many apistos in there is similar to what you do with african cichlids. You overstock, but have plenty of hiding places for everyone. There are enough that they spread their aggression out evenly. It's not a technique that I'd advise to people new for keeping fish but I've gathered that you have a pretty good head on your shoulders based on your other posts. It's all up to you, you can lightly stock it or overstock as mentioned earlier. I'm just a fan of having a lot of things going on in the tank making it active.

 

[magpie]

Thanks, that helps clarify.

I think since I want other fish, a couple of schoolers with maybe 10 each, that I should have less cichlids.... I keep flip flopping. I do have a Eheim 2217, which is rated for a much bigger tank, so I know that and live plants are a factor, too.

Im not a full newbie since I've had a tank previously, but it was only a 30-gallon and it was 7-8 yrs ago before all this info was so readily available. I'm the type to research a ton before I jump in. Forums are fantastic for getting questions answered. So thanks for your input and keep it coming!

 

[magpie]

The more and more I read out there, the more I hear that 6 rams would be max for a 36" long tank. I want my fish to thrive... Still not sure if one pair would be happy so I could have a pair of apistos or if I should just do 6 rams.

I read that blue rams live a solitary existence except for breeding, so they are better in a pair vs group. But I've read that Bolivians are social and like a group, or at least a pair. What are all if your experiences with these two species in this regard?

 

[ZoddyZod]

Haha, whomever told you that you could only have 4 rams in a 65g is crazy. The general rule of thumb per cichlids is 1 inch per 2 gallons. If we assume that each ram is 4 inches, you could fit 14 or so in there. I would hesitate to say that you could place 16 rams in there

wow, that sounds like a LOT. I've never read numbers anywhere near that in relation to the tank size and dwarf cichlids. Have you attempted this yourself?

I've limited myself to 6 bolivians in 80g (with other fish, obviously) because everything I had read seemed to say that was pretty much the limit.