Dr Tim's One And Only Or Tetra Safe Start?

[Ch4rlie]

Hey all!
 
A bit of advice needed here.
 
I have a friend who has a son who really wants to start a fish tank. 

(think dad wants it too!) lol
 
He has, so far, bought a 54 litre (14 US Gals) tank with set up of internal filter, light and heater included.
Actually encouraged them to get the biggest tank they can afford and have space for, as they were originally going to get a BiOrb 30L.
 
And son wants fish NOW!! lol
 
Had to explain to the boy that I need to get the water ready otherwise fish might get ill and maybe die!
Shoulda seen his little face.......

Now I understand how some parents succumb to the pressures of children........

 
Anyway, as title suggests, I need advice on some reliable bacteria product to start the fishless cycle.
 
I am reluctant to give any of my media from my main external filter as I've already just recently used some of my filter media to start a new tank cycle for my GF and do not want to take any more media out in case this has an effect on my main tank.
 
I have heard Tetra Safe Start has been used successfully to cycle a tank very quickly.
 
TSS are readily available in LFS.
 
Or can buy online a bottle of Dr Tim's One and Only, I have heard this has been used successfully as well.
 
Online buying means waiting a few days for delivery and unable to see expiry date of bottle until actually delivered.
 
Prices are sort of fairly similar for both.
 
API Quick Start is also another one I've heard of but not keen on this one as heard it's not all that!
 
Which would you recommend to be the more reliable bacteria starter for doing fishless cycling a tank?
(average timescales for fishless cycle using any of these products would be useful as well)
 
I'd also like to hear some of your experiences and tips for any other fishless cycling products. Thanks all.

 

[attibones]

I have never used Safe Start, but I have used Dr Tim twice. The smaller tank was cycled rather quickly, while the larger one took a few extra weeks (under fourteen days, then about three weeks for the larger). I think what made the ten gallon cycle dated is the fact that it had enough bacteria for thirty gallons, while the twenty gallon had the same amount of bacteria. The difference being 200% more bacteria as opposed to 50% more bacteria. I think I did my number right.

Either way, Dr Tim's service is excellent. I made an error on my order (placed late Friday night) which they corrected for me on Saturday evening and shipped Monday morning. They also included a free bottle of something else, even though the error was entirely own.

Safe start was owned by Dr. Tim, I believe, but the franchise split. Safe start is now very similar but lacks one aspect to avoid copyright infringement.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Safe start was owned by Dr. Tim, I believe, but the franchise split. Safe start is now very similar but lacks one aspect to avoid copyright infringement.

 
I think I did read something along those lines on another thread recently but was not sure if this was the case or not.
 
Now that you mention this, I wonder what this TSS lacks now since the split from Dr Tim franchise. 
 
Beginning to have a little doubt about TSS now.....
 
Thanks for your input, appreciated.

 

[daizeUK]

I've also used Dr Tim's and had great success with it.  My only criticism is that the instructions are hard to follow and very unforgiving.  If you get it perfectly right then it is capable of cycling a tank from scratch inside a week.  In practice, like attibones, it took around 2 weeks for me.
 
I don't have any experience with TSS but I've heard the same as attibones.  It's not a bad product but if you're asking which is best then it's almost certainly One and Only. 
 
You can also use Dr Tim's for a fish-in cycle which might suit your friend and his son if they don't want to wait for a fishless.  Add a few fish, chuck in a bottle of Dr Tim's and don't change the water for a week or two.  Couldn't get any easier than that!

 

[Ch4rlie]

As simple as that!

Dr Tim's sound like miracle stuff to be honest.
Beginning to question why bother with mature filter media when you can get a tank cycled quicker with Dr Tim's One and Only!
(apart from the obvious cost savings)

Don't think will recommend that to my friend to add fish then add Dr Tim's.
Much rather be sure and go for fish less cycle and do double checks before adding any stocking.

That's how I would do things if it was my own personal tank.

 

[daizeUK]

Fishless is always best!   I'd just recommend that you be on hand to help them out if going for a Dr. Tim's fishless.  The instructions on his website gave me a headache.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Will check out the instruction on website soon.

Can tell you now, if it gave you a headache then for darn sure it's gonna give me a massive headache! Lol

Thanks for that.

 

[daizeUK]

I used it before TwoTankAmin updated the cycling instructions (which are based somewhat on Dr Tim's work) so it should be easier now!
There are still some differences such as adding only 2ppm ammonia and half the original dose after 24 hours or similar, if I remember correctly.  We could really do with a set of clear instructions on how to cycle with Dr Tim's on this site, it seems to be coming up more often now. 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There are a few reasons to use media instead of paying for Dr. Tim's.
 
1. Cheaper.
2. Usually faster to get if the donated bacteria is local.
3. Sometimes mishandling degrades or kills the bottled. So its not 100% sure it will work.
 
TSS should contain the same stuff- the patents i am sure were shared, at least for some time. Remember, Dr. Hovanec worked for Marineland while doing his research and Marineland had rights to the product. Marineland was acquired but the same conglomerate which owns Tetra which took over the lab type work and research Dr. Hovanec did. Dr. H too over the labs out on the west coast and opened his own business.
 
What concerns me most about TSS is the directions are no longer in line with those for Dr Tim's. TSS wants no dechlor near its product. Wants no water change for a week. Dr Tim's is still make sure ammonia and nitrite are below 5 ppm as -Nitrogen, only dose dechlor at normal levels and add the product one and go. He even has directions for dosing ammonia so you get cycled fast.
 

 
Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria: The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week. Again, do not add too much ammonia. We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 1 drop of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm).
 
The procedure is to add the ammonium chloride solution, shake the bottle of nitrifying bacteria well and add it to the aquarium. Measure ammonia and nitrite the next day and record. Add ½ dose and wait 24 hours and measure again. By day 5 to 7, you should be able to add 1 drop per gallon and the next day, ammonia and nitrite will be 0.

 
Imo, what it should really say is after adding that 1/2 dose is: "somewhere around day 5 to 7 you should have 0/0 readings and can then add 1 drop/gal and read 0/0 the next day. When this happens your tank is cycled."
 
For the nerds out there 2 ppm of ammonia-nitrogen will read about 2.5 ppm on an API test kit which uses the total ion scale. Also do noy confuse testing and dosing ammonia in the above case. Dose on day one and on day two no mater what the readings. Then wait for the 0/0 to do the last bit.

 

[Shaddex]

If you have a tank setup yourself (which I assume as you are on FFS lol), why not remove a little media from your tank and "Insta" cycle the new tank with it.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

If you have a tank setup yourself (which I assume as you are on FFS lol), why not remove a little media from your tank and "Insta" cycle the new tank with it.

 
 
I would second this... give him some of your mature media, and you can instantly cycle his tank for a smaller bioload.
 
 
Really simplistic way of looking at (grossly over-simplified):
If you have 45 inches of fish in your tank and you give him, you could assume that his tank will safely be able to handle ~15 inches of fish.  That may or may not be completely true.  The bacteria might be slow to respond if your water parameters and his are drastically different, but they will bounce back very quickly.  Furthermore, they will bounce back faster, since they are already in their proper biofilm on the media and don't need to 'waste' energy building a biofilm.
 
 
So... mature media would be best in this case.  You obviously live close enough to see his son face to face.  Surprise him with a gift... some dirty filter media in a zip top bag, and maybe a few plant trimmings if you can spare a bit.    Plants will also have a lot of nice microfauna needed to mature a tank.

 

[Ch4rlie]

If you have a tank setup yourself (which I assume as you are on Bad word removed lol), why not remove a little media from your tank and "Insta" cycle the new tank with it.

 
I do now have 2 tanks running, but as below, should explain a bit more.....
 
 

 
I am reluctant to give any of my media from my main external filter as I've already just recently used some of my filter media to start a new tank cycle for my GF and do not want to take any more media out in case this has an effect on my main tank.

 
TTA - thanks for that useful information.
 
That does help a lot indeed.
 
I do have one query, 
 
 

There are a few reasons to use media instead of paying for Dr. Tim's.
 
1. Cheaper.
2. Usually faster to get if the donated bacteria is local.
3. Sometimes mishandling degrades or kills the bottled. So its not 100% sure it will work.
 

We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 1 drop of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm).

 

 
 
This says Dr Tim provides a bottle of reagant ammonium chloride, is this something I would need to get online or can I use my own bottle ammonia that I already have?

 

[daizeUK]

May as well use your own if you already have some.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ok,
 
Since everyone is saying use my own media to start his tank despite my mentioning a few times that am reluctant to do this since already taken some media out for my girlfriend's tank cycle.
 
A couple of questions first before will go any further down this way-
 
How long does it take for a filter to recover from having media taken out?
Took out nearly a quarter of ceramic bio media for GF tank about 2 weeks ago. (Did replace with similar amount of new) 
 
What the best to use? Ceramic Bio media?
Sponge? filter foam?
 
My tetratex EX 1200 was bought second hand with already mature media (about 2 years) from a member of this forum. The filter media inside is not the same media as advertised for Tetratec products. Kinda hard to describe what I mean. 
 
Does have ceramic bio media, 2 sponge/foam sealed inside 2 bags, black bioballs.
 
Tips/advice be appreciated.
 
Or just go ahead with Dr Tim's One and Only......I'll buy it for him.......gift!

 

[daizeUK]

Just to be clear... I meant use your own ammonia, not your own media.  I would not use too much of your own media either.