Double Headed Arowana Anyone?

[one_eyed_wonder]

http/www.arowana.co.uk/arowana-shop-prod...p?product_id=83

That is a serious amout of doh!

 

[Wills]

Oh yeah i remember pics of the siamese showing up on the net. Somewhere there is a snow white pair that are joined at the stomach with a giant one on top and a smaller slave one kind of hanging on the bottom - think the asking price started at $100k but people were saying its a stupid price because the big twin had dropped eyes from being fed sinking food - have to say if I was buying a siamese twin fish I dont think I would be bothered about the drop eyes!

 

[saz326]

I cant believe it was allowed to reach such an age. It may be a scientific wonder but there is no way of telling whether the fish is hurting (crossed nervous system) or constantly hungry from getting chemical signals from the second brain if the second head doesnt get to eat..

..i dunno. Big can of worms being opened here (and I am only stating my opinion) but a fish like that should have been culled as a fry. Its just not right.

 

[mixmaster jay]

that is just ridiculas £58,000 for a fish that probaby wont live for all that long and the fact that its deformed thats just going to cause problems in the long run

 

[Jallen]

I cant believe it was allowed to reach such an age. It may be a scientific wonder but there is no way of telling whether the fish is hurting (crossed nervous system) or constantly hungry from getting chemical signals from the second brain if the second head doesnt get to eat..

..i dunno. Big can of worms being opened here (and I am only stating my opinion) but a fish like that should have been culled as a fry. Its just not right.

Human psycology makes us apply human emotions and feelings to non-human things.

For example, people don't like putting lobsters in a hot pot despite the lobster being completely oblivious to it, in fact, if you put a bit of food in the pot with it, the lobster will happily start eating it.

Arguably, fish don't have the capacity to suffer in the way you have described.
In fact the hunger point is most likely to not apply because fish will eat themselves to death.

Arguably, culling the siamese fry is the same as culling siamese humans by the whole apply-human-values-to-non-humans thing. So what's worse? Culling or letting it live?

 

[simonas]

I'd rather have a normal one, it looks crap and as others have said I feel sorry for anything freaky like that can;t be healthy

 

[coldcazzie]

*chokes on her tea*

£58 grand for a fish?!

The world's gone mad...

 

[dave_oddballs]

fish can feel things, proven!
if a fish has an injured fin, it stops using it, if a fish has something wrong with its mouth, it won't eat etc etc. they have to be able to feel pain otherwise they wouldn't know not to use it.
that fish WILL NOT live a normal life and will probably live a short one, it is cruel and senseless to even propose keeping a fish like that alive.
i think you are very small minded comparing a siamese fish to a siamese twin human, although i think it is cruel to a certain extent letting siamese twin humans live, they are operable, it can and has been done with success. now, you cant seperate a siamese fish, due to size and sensitivity, not to mention the length of the operation it would take, the fish would die either way.

 

[bala]

0_0 #128###! is that? lmao, what is that arowana at the top of the page that gold coloured one, whats that called? thats a wiked looking fish.


oh never mind got it

 

[Jallen]

fish can feel things, proven!
if a fish has an injured fin, it stops using it, if a fish has something wrong with its mouth, it won't eat etc etc. they have to be able to feel pain otherwise they wouldn't know not to use it.
that fish WILL NOT live a normal life and will probably live a short one, it is cruel and senseless to even propose keeping a fish like that alive.
i think you are very small minded comparing a siamese fish to a siamese twin human, although i think it is cruel to a certain extent letting siamese twin humans live, they are operable, it can and has been done with success. now, you cant seperate a siamese fish, due to size and sensitivity, not to mention the length of the operation it would take, the fish would die either way.

1. If a fish stops using a damaged fin it doesn't mean that it feels pain as we know it.
2. Please explain why in this context comparing a siamese twin pair of fish to a siamese human pair of twins is "small minded".
3. Many siamese twins live without suffering, joined for life. It's a short life, but it is at least longer than the life they would live if culled.

There is no proof that the fish is suffering therefore it's just as logical to presume it's not suffering, as with any fish which is not joined to another one.

 

[drobbyb]

fish can feel things, proven!
if a fish has an injured fin, it stops using it, if a fish has something wrong with its mouth, it won't eat etc etc. they have to be able to feel pain otherwise they wouldn't know not to use it.
that fish WILL NOT live a normal life and will probably live a short one, it is cruel and senseless to even propose keeping a fish like that alive.
i think you are very small minded comparing a siamese fish to a siamese twin human, although i think it is cruel to a certain extent letting siamese twin humans live, they are operable, it can and has been done with success. now, you cant seperate a siamese fish, due to size and sensitivity, not to mention the length of the operation it would take, the fish would die either way.

1. If a fish stops using a damaged fin it doesn't mean that it feels pain as we know it.
2. Please explain why in this context comparing a siamese twin pair of fish to a siamese human pair of twins is "small minded".
3. Many siamese twins live without suffering, joined for life. It's a short life, but it is at least longer than the life they would live if culled.

There is no proof that the fish is suffering therefore it's just as logical to presume it's not suffering, as with any fish which is not joined to another one.

Prove to me that fish feel no pain, then I'll entertain your idea.

 

[Jallen]

fish can feel things, proven!
if a fish has an injured fin, it stops using it, if a fish has something wrong with its mouth, it won't eat etc etc. they have to be able to feel pain otherwise they wouldn't know not to use it.
that fish WILL NOT live a normal life and will probably live a short one, it is cruel and senseless to even propose keeping a fish like that alive.
i think you are very small minded comparing a siamese fish to a siamese twin human, although i think it is cruel to a certain extent letting siamese twin humans live, they are operable, it can and has been done with success. now, you cant seperate a siamese fish, due to size and sensitivity, not to mention the length of the operation it would take, the fish would die either way.

1. If a fish stops using a damaged fin it doesn't mean that it feels pain as we know it.
2. Please explain why in this context comparing a siamese twin pair of fish to a siamese human pair of twins is "small minded".
3. Many siamese twins live without suffering, joined for life. It's a short life, but it is at least longer than the life they would live if culled.

There is no proof that the fish is suffering therefore it's just as logical to presume it's not suffering, as with any fish which is not joined to another one.

Prove to me that fish feel no pain, then I'll entertain your idea.

I'm not saying that they don't feel pain, I'm saying that they may not feel pain as we know it.

And my main point is that there is no proof that the fish is in pain, therefore we shouldn't assume that it is and kill it. Many human siamese twins live without pain for their short (but longer than if they were culled) lives, and that's the closest thing we can find to make an assumption from.

I think it's kind of silly to assume that just because a fish is not normal that it's suddenly in pain.

 

[dave_oddballs]

fish have nervous systems, a humans do,
something makes fish stop using damaged fins, pain.
it is more 'small minded' to presume another animal, does not feel pain, than it is to presume they do.
i don't have time for people like you, fish keeper maybe, fish lover? i'd question that

 

[Jallen]

I don't have time for people who do not read my posts before critisising them.

I said the following things about fish feeling pain.

Arguably, fish don't have the capacity to suffer in the way you have described.

1. If a fish stops using a damaged fin it doesn't mean that it feels pain as we know it.

I'm not saying that they don't feel pain, I'm saying that they may not feel pain as we know it.

I haven't once said that they don't feel it, only that it may not be the same as what we consider to be pain. Being a much simpler creature in terms of intelligence they may not "suffer" as we know suffering to be.

Again, this wasn't my main point however, this was:

There is no evidence that this siamese twin fish pair is in pain.
We can make a comparison to human siamese twins as they are biologically similar.
Many siamese twin humans live without suffering.
Therefore it is logical to state that the siamese pair of arowana are not in pain.

I don't know how you managed to interpret what you did from my posts. My point isn't that they don't feel pain (where did I say this?), it's that the chances are that these fish aren't in pain, and culling them wouldn't have a point.

 

[Inchworm]

This thread might be better discussed in the science section where the rules are to back up what you say or say nothing. I'll move it there.