Does an air stone make a difference?

[Airecl]

Hi guys

I was wondering whether if you already have surface turbulence on a tank, whether having an air stone actually matters or not?

Might be a daft question I’m not sure!

Just wondering whether it’s worth it or not, if anyone has noticed a big difference or anything.

 

[Jessie J.]

If you have good water movement from the filter, you don't necessarily need an air pump.

 

[Colin_T]

It depends on what type of surface turbulence you have and how much there is.

An air stone bubbling away vigorously will help reduce carbon dioxide (CO2) levels and maximise the oxygen (O2) in the water.

If you have lots of surface turbulence from a power filter or wave maker you should have high oxygen levels in the water, but it probably won't be as high as if you use an air stone.

If you only have a small amount of surface turbulence from a power filter then an air stone bubbling away would help increase oxygen levels in the water.

 

[Byron]

Live plants also factor in to this equation.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I'm going to take a slightly different take on this. Bubbles that break the surface cause a gas exchange of Oxygen and CO2 - Since there is both O2 and CO2 in the air, it's a sort of natural equalization. So it may not be absolutely necessary, but can be beneficial. If you have an air pump lying around then why not. If you don't it may or may not be worth getting a pump.

 

[Airecl]

Thanks everyone, main tank is currently planted with around 20 live plants in.
I have a ‘scoop’ outlet on my filter (850l flow rate) tank is 230l.

The tank itself is quite tall (60cm) so I was worried about getting enough oxygen in the water so I’ve had an air pump on with a stone for a while.

I’m worried that turning it off will upset everyone but the humming sound is driving me mad haha.

 

[Byron]

Thanks everyone, main tank is currently planted with around 20 live plants in.
I have a ‘scoop’ outlet on my filter (850l flow rate) tank is 230l.

The tank itself is quite tall (60cm) so I was worried about getting enough oxygen in the water so I’ve had an air pump on with a stone for a while.

I’m worried that turning it off will upset everyone but the humming sound is driving me mad haha.

A height of 60 cm (24 inches) is not that high so provided there is decent filter circulation (from end to end achieves this) airstones will not likely benefit. I had two tanks this height, one a 120 cm lengt5h and the other 150 cm length, and the canister filter with the return positioned to create some surface disturbance at that end was sufficient. I adjusted it once when I noticed thee cories respirating a bit faster in the early morning, and that went away.

 

[Colin_T]

I’m worried that turning it off will upset everyone but the humming sound is driving me mad haha.

You will get use to the noise but if not, visit the pet shop and try out a few air pumps. Some have better insulation and are much quieter, whereas others (the cheaper models) make more noise.

Most air pumps have a small screw in the side that is attached to the air chamber. If you loosen the screw a small amount it will help reduce noise. it will also reduce the air pressure so don't loosen it too much or you won't have any air bubbles.

If you raise the airstone up in the tank so it is within 8-12 inches of the surface, there will be less back pressure on the pump and it should be a bit quieter.

You can put a towel under the pump and it can help reduce noise. Be careful when putting material under pumps because they can slide around more easily and might vibrate themselves off the table or whatever they are on.

Do not cover the pump with a towel because they can over heat and burn out.

If the pump is still annoying, then turn it off but adjust the filter outlet so it is above the water and splashes into the water. This will help to increase oxygen in the water.

The air pump can be turned off during the day if you have light on the tank. However, at night when the lights are out, you want lots of surface turbulence from either the air pump or a power filter outlet. This is because the plants use oxygen at night and they compete with the fish for the oxygen. Aeration is more important when the tank is dark or warm.

 

[pov]

This is because the plants use oxygen at night

I didn't think plants ate oxygen at all but the roots eat o2 is this right, water plants are often floating or really the whole plant is under water, and I would say that fish die very quickly from suffocation a couple of hours maybe it is probably a good idea to have a bubbler even if your tank is stable just in case you have to stand there and shake your hand in the water and call 000 or something...…. " I was plants eat co2 which creates more 02 entering the water. added co2 is like turning the clock back 10,000 years and creating extra growth, abundance hybrid vigour. added air is just fairly normal partly because there is more o2 then co2 and secondly because you are always needing to be compensating for fish eating o2 and thirdly fish really get moody in aggravated water makes them happy......

 

[NickAu]

Bubbles that break the surface cause a gas exchange of Oxygen and CO2 - Since there is both O2 and CO2 in the air, it's a sort of natural equalization.

I totally agree.

There is no disadvantage to running a airpump and small airstone or sponge filter in the tank

 

[pov]

Co2 injection should not be used in tanks with live stock

if you did do all the maths and get all environment factors right , I still believe that it is the fish that decide whether they are going to suffocate or not what they recognize as a danger to themselves could be so so endless , I wonder how they might feel about a co2 injection, not that it is that foreign to a fish just , the fish do suffocate quick and it,s probably very interesting to them.

 

[Colin_T]

During the day when there is sufficient light, all plants and algae (terrestrial & aquatic) will use carbon dioxide (CO2) and release oxygen (O2). However, at night when it is dark, plants and algae use oxygen and release CO2.

In an aquarium there are aerobic bacteria in the gravel, filter and on the glass, plants and ornaments, as well as fish and other types of microscopic organisms that all require oxygen 24 hours a day.

Most aquariums have lots of fish, and tanks that have lots of plants in usually have large amounts of rotting matter in the substrate that houses vast numbers of bacteria.

Because of human actions over the last 200 years (removing trees & plants and releasing CO2 with industry and internal combustion engines), there is a surplus of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and that gets into the water too.

These factors all contribute to lower than optimal oxygen levels in the water and the fish, plants & filter bacteria can suffer if there is not enough oxygen or there is too much CO2.

Aerobic organisms can suffer and die if the CO2 levels get too high even if there is plenty of oxygen to breathe. However, in most situations, the O2 levels drop as the CO2 levels increase and this is especially true in water. Water can only hold so many gasses and this includes nitrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide. If you have too much CO2 then there will be less nitrogen and or oxygen in the water. If you have salt or lots of minerals or chemicals in the water, then the water will hold less dissolved gasses too.

This is why you should do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate, as well as cleaning the filter before treating fish. And you should also increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise the oxygen levels in the water. The cleaner the environment and water, the fewer organisms that will be using the oxygen, and there will be more O2 available for the fish that are usually stressed due to the disease.

Maximising the aeration/ surface turbulence helps to increase oxygen levels and reduces the CO2 levels in the water so it is easier for the fish to breathe.

 

[pov]

I don't think that more co2 in the air is causing the problem I may be wrong but I disagree I think that acidifying oceans are cause by algae growth , because the force of making the o2- co2 equilibrium is much stronger then the outside pressure although it has a speed variable, and then the ph changes the co2 o2 balance also after this is temperature … but - temperature is a bigger concern in climate change as it effects ph which then effects co2 02 which then it effects the 02 - co2 equilibrium.
so the equilibrium maybe the weakest and slowest force but it is the most powerfull.. which creates stability...….
as for the plant question...
I found a link that describes it simply.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=730

I'l bet you are wondering that because you already know that plants can make oxygen. You probably already know that in photosynthesis, plants take CO2 from the air, Water (H2O) from their roots, and energy from the sun and make sugar (C6H12O6). What a lot of people don't realize is that when there's little or no light, plants do the same thing we do. The break down the sugar to release CO2, water, and energy. This requires oxygen. The reason is pretty complex, but basically, electrons get passed around, and oxygen has to pick them up at the end of the process.
If you measured the amount of oxygen and CO2 dissolved in a lake, how do you think the daytime levels would compare to the nighttime levels?

 

[Colin_T]

I don't think that more co2 in the air is causing the problem I may be wrong but I disagree I think that acidifying oceans are cause by algae growth

In the last 200 years, people have removed 90% of the trees, plants and forests on the planet and they have replaced them with brick, stone, concrete and bitumen roads and buildings. In addition to this, there are lots of people using internal combustion engines (cars, trucks, motorbikes, lawn mowers, chain saws, etc) all around the world and these produce heat and CO2 as well as other toxic gasses. And there are numerous power stations producing CO2 & heat and lots of electrical appliances that produce heat.

The reduction of plants that would normally use the CO2 in the air has lead to an increased amount of CO2 and a decreased amount of O2 in the atmosphere, and this excess CO2 is going into water ways where it reduces the pH, GH & KH of the water.

The algae in the water is using as much CO2 as it can but people are producing more CO2 than the remaining terrestrial & aquatic plants can deal with. Subsequently the pH of the oceans is dropping and it will continue to drop until the CO2 levels in the water are reduced. This won't happen until the CO2 in the air is reduced.

If you measured the amount of oxygen and CO2 dissolved in a lake, how do you think the daytime levels would compare to the nighttime levels?

There are too many variables in an outdoor lake but I have tested this in a plastic storage tub that was full of algae (green water). I had a number of plastic storage containers that held between 40 & 200 litres of water. They were fertilised and developed blooms of single celled algae. Some of the containers were aerated and others weren't.

The containers all got about 16 hours of light per day and the water temperature ranged between 30 & 45C. These temperatures varied during the day and night with 45C being maximum during the day and 30C being minimum during the night. These are normal summer temperatures where I lived.

The pH of the tap water was 8.5 and there was less than 50ppm of GH and 0 KH.

I tested the containers for pH and oxygen level but not CO2 level.

The containers that were aerated had high oxygen levels day and night, the levels were at maximum for the test kit. The pH was around 8.5 and remained there day and night.

The containers that were not aerated had high (maximum for the test kit) oxygen levels during the day when there was light, but at night the oxygen levels dropped to virtually 0. The pH in these containers was on 8.5 during the day and dropped to 5.0 during the night. In the morning about an hour after sunrise, the pH started going up and by noon the pH was on 8.5 again.

I did similar tests with containers of water that did not have algae in and the aerated containers had high oxygen levels and no pH change day or night. The containers that were not aerated had low oxygen levels during the day and night and this was put down to the heat, with warm water holding less oxygen than cool water.

 

[pov]

I don't think that more co2 in the air is causing the problem I may be wrong but I disagree I think that acidifying oceans are cause by algae growth , because the force of making the o2- co2 equilibrium is much stronger then the outside pressure although it has a speed variable, and then the ph changes the co2 o2 balance also after this is temperature … but - temperature is a bigger concern in climate change as it effects ph which then effects co2 02 which then it effects the 02 - co2 equilibrium.
so the equilibrium maybe the weakest and slowest force but it is the most powerfull.. which creates stability...….

that an interesting test you done, but that is what I said and the second paragraph is from the link I posted
what I said is that increased carbon from pollution in the air is raising the temperature and that causes algae which is the major problem with co2 in water it is totally different it,s like me forgetting to add that increasing surface area increases the ability to add oxygen to your fish tanks . just as you have done in your experiment.
And what I think I may be wrong about is really insignificant now as it,s about the speed and force of water to take on air .. you have just left it off the map.. … in everything.