Do Kribs Kill And Eat Guppies?

[Jozlyn]

I've already decided to set up the 22lt now before I lose anymore fish. I'll take the filter off my Betta's tank and use that and keep a good eye on the water stat's. I'm soooooo angry with myself for putting myself in this situation, everything I read, all the sites I visited, what a waste of time

 

[jimw13uk]

best place to check out on Cichlids is this forum and cichlidforum.com
everyone in both places are really helpful and quite knowledgeable

 

[Jozlyn]

best place to check out on Cichlids is this forum and cichlidforum.com
everyone in both places are really helpful and quite knowledgeable

I didn't know about cichlidforum.com, thanks, I'll check that out.

I'm sooo angry at myself I could just cry

 

[CFC]

as they are a breeding pair have you got another tank ready cos once the fry are about you may need to move them out of the main tank due to the male Krib getting frisky again , which can cause problems if the fry are still around and the female isnt interested in his advances.

NEVER remove all the fry from any Cichlid species!! Removing fry from the parents before they are ready to go can break the pair bond as each fish blames the other for the disapearance of the fry, at best you will end up with a fish that is reluctant to waste precious energy to breed again in an enviroment it doesnt consider safe, at worst you end up with a dead female. If you want to remove some fry to raise them seperately then always leave at least 25% of the brood with the parents and do not remove them until the parents are seen actively chasing them from the nest site.

Personally with the diseased fish in the tank (dwarf gouarmi and neons) i wouldnt be adding anything new to the tank at any point until all the current stock is gone and the tank has been stripped down and left dry for a period, both diseases can be carried by other genuses and can cross infect closely related species for months and even years after the original diseased fish are gone.

Kribs can work in community settings with decent (not food) sized dithers such as barbs or larger tetras, placement of spawning sites is importent so that the kribs dont dominate the tank and feel they have defend every inch of the substrate, by putting a cave at each end of the tank in the front corners you give them a choice of spawning caves but also limit their area to at most one half of the tank, of course tank size is critical here and i wouldnt attempt a pair of any Cichlid in a community with less than 30 gallons of water.

The gourami, angel, mollies and BN should be able to look after themselves and provided their is enough room and some plants/structures to break up sight lines aggression should usually be nothing more than a quick chase away from the site of the spawning cave, but this is not gospel and you do sometimes get kribs that are just unholy terrors. I had a pair of wild caught kribs a few years ago and they were wickedly aggressive to the point where they would happily take on fish 5 times their own size.

 

[Jozlyn]

NEVER remove all the fry from any Cichlid species!! Removing fry from the parents before they are ready to go can break the pair bond as each fish blames the other for the disapearance of the fry, at best you will end up with a fish that is reluctant to waste precious energy to breed again in an enviroment it doesnt consider safe, at worst you end up with a dead female. If you want to remove some fry to raise them seperately then always leave at least 25% of the brood with the parents and do not remove them until the parents are seen actively chasing them from the nest site.
As previously posted I had planned to move the female and fry to this tank when they were free swimming. To stop any further breeding and aggression, or whomever is the dominant parent, which from my useless reasearch suggests the female but sometimes the male.

Personally with the diseased fish in the tank (dwarf gouarmi and neons) i wouldnt be adding anything new to the tank at any point until all the current stock is gone and the tank has been stripped down and left dry for a period, both diseases can be carried by other genuses and can cross infect closely related species for months and even years after the original diseased fish are gone.
From my seemingly fruitless research, I thought I had acertained that both of these diseases were not transferable to other fish, but I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong.

Kribs can work in community settings with decent (not food) sized dithers such as barbs or larger tetras, placement of spawning sites is importent so that the kribs dont dominate the tank and feel they have defend every inch of the substrate, by putting a cave at each end of the tank in the front corners you give them a choice of spawning caves but also limit their area to at most one half of the tank, of course tank size is critical here and i wouldnt attempt a pair of any Cichlid in a community with less than 30 gallons of water.
I have placed 3 "caves" at only one end of the tank. I'm a little under 30g with 27g. I must've missread the info' on dithers as I thought the Neon's would be appropriate, perhaps I was guilty of only reading what I wanted to read, even at my age this can happen.

The gourami, angel, mollies and BN should be able to look after themselves and provided their is enough room and some plants/structures to break up sight lines aggression should usually be nothing more than a quick chase away from the site of the spawning cave, but this is not gospel and you do sometimes get kribs that are just unholy terrors. I had a pair of wild caught kribs a few years ago and they were wickedly aggressive to the point where they would happily take on fish 5 times their own size.
I have loads of plants and some "structures", there is some "free" swimming space but I have made sure that "line of sight" from one end of the tank to the other is broken.

I have just finished setting up the 22lt for the krib's to move into for the time being, they have some plants and two caves but no substrate, will that be ok? I will not risk any of my other fish, I am too attached to them. I still can't believe that all of my research was worthless. I am always advising people to research their fish before getting them and I've stuffed up Royaly!

 

[CFC]

You should never split a pair up once they have bred, the pair bonding is for life but if there is a split either manually by you or from the bond breaking down between them it is highly likely you will never get them to pair up again and there will more than likely be violence between them until one is removed or killed.
Usually the male is the dominant fish but they both play an aggressive role, the female will stay in the cave with the eggs while the male guards outside the cave but in the case of a large intruder the female will join the male outside in seeing off the threat.

NTD will effect some other species of tetra but the parasite that causes the disease is a protazoan parasite which can host itself in the bodies of many species so even tanks that have had no tetras in for months can suddenly be infested again as soon as more are added. The disease carried by dwarf gouramies is a bacterial disease which can survive even with no fish present in the tank for short periods, it can be transfered to other labyrynth fishes like other gourami species and climbing perches as well as the dwarf species.


In your situation i would place all the smaller fish into the 22L tank as a temporary measure and then try to get a larger tank for either them or the kribs, i fear that 22 litres will be too small for the kribs and is likely to cause aggression problems between them, as you have already seen signs of breeding it would be a shame to stress the pair bond and risk having two incompatable kribs.

 

[Jozlyn]

Thanks for all your help CFC, sorry I did not reply last night but I was just too tired and stressed (wallowing in self pity and angst), you have given me good advice in the past and I sincerely appreciate the advice you're supplying now.

You should never split a pair up once they have bred, the pair bonding is for life but if there is a split either manually by you or from the bond breaking down between them it is highly likely you will never get them to pair up again and there will more than likely be violence between them until one is removed or killed.
Usually the male is the dominant fish but they both play an aggressive role, the female will stay in the cave with the eggs while the male guards outside the cave but in the case of a large intruder the female will join the male outside in seeing off the threat.

You know in all the stuff I read, never once did I see anything suggesting that they paired for life, in fact quite the opposite, the sites I read on breeding pretty much all suggested moving fry and the dominent parent, to ensure that the female was not harried to death by the male if she was not ready to spawn again. I also figured this would be a good way to make sure that I had sold all of my fry prior to brewing a new batch.


NTD will effect some other species of tetra but the parasite that causes the disease is a protazoan parasite which can host itself in the bodies of many species so even tanks that have had no tetras in for months can suddenly be infested again as soon as more are added. The disease carried by dwarf gouramies is a bacterial disease which can survive even with no fish present in the tank for short periods, it can be transfered to other labyrynth fishes like other gourami species and climbing perches as well as the dwarf species.

Yep, that was what my research told me, that in fact the tank needs to be fully steralised to remove the parasite if one wished to add new tetra's. At this point I've decided that I don't actually like any of them very much and would not be getting anymore anyway, therefore no need to strip the tank down. The only reason I have them is because my husband and children liked them so much.


In your situation i would place all the smaller fish into the 22L tank as a temporary measure and then try to get a larger tank for either them or the kribs, i fear that 22 litres will be too small for the kribs and is likely to cause aggression problems between them, as you have already seen signs of breeding it would be a shame to stress the pair bond and risk having two incompatable kribs.
I moved the Krib's into the 22lt last night, but can easily move them back after work. I was very worried about the other tank ocupants being killed, but if your quite sure they'll be ok then I can put the "boys" (male guppies) in the 22lt instead and the Neon's will have to take their chances as I have no intention of infecting my QT/Hospital tank with NTD.

One of the BN Cat's is very small, around 5cm's, will it be ok? Should I move it to the "girls & fry" tank to be on the safe side?

Will the molly's work as "dither" fish? I guess they'll have to as I don't have enough space to add any other type of fish for the Krib's to chase.

I have also asked for a 5' tank for Mother's Day, which is only a few weeks off, so I've got my fingers crossed!

 

[dirtydog]

I have also asked for a 5' tank for Mother's Day, which is only a few weeks off, so I've got my fingers crossed!

dont ask for much do you?

 

[CFC]

the sites I read on breeding pretty much all suggested moving fry and the dominent parent, to ensure that the female was not harried to death by the male if she was not ready to spawn again. I also figured this would be a good way to make sure that I had sold all of my fry prior to brewing a new batch.

They shouldnt spawn again until the fry are around 1 inch in length, at which point the parents will begin to chase the juvinile offspring away from the spawning cave, by all means remove some of the fry once they are free swimming as you will be able raise them faster in a seperate tank without the fear of polluting the main tank with over feeding but always leave the pair some fry to raise the natural way.

One of the BN Cat's is very small, around 5cm's, will it be ok? Should I move it to the "girls & fry" tank to be on the safe side?

Bristlenoses are perfectly capable of looking after themselves, i keep one in a tank of exodons and they are terrified of it They should be fine

Will the molly's work as "dither" fish? I guess they'll have to as I don't have enough space to add any other type of fish for the Krib's to chase.

Mollies tend to stay near the surface so shouldn't be too much of a target for the kribs, they are also too large to get a hold of so will be able to get away.

I have also asked for a 5' tank for Mother's Day, which is only a few weeks off, so I've got my fingers crossed!

Good luck with that!!

 

[nmonks]

I'm going to disagree (slightly) with CFC here. My experience of Pelvicachromis spp (both P. pulcher and P. taeniatus) is that they are certainly very loyal partners but the bond is elastic. The female chooses the male, and at times drives off the male from her territory. For the first few days post-spawning, the female looks after the eggs almost entirely, and the male is kept outside her home range, at least during the day when I've observed them.

All Pelvicachromis maintain what scientists call a "matriarchal/patriarchal family", that is, while the two parents share broodcare duties, the female is the dominant partner. She approaches the male and flirts with him, and she chooses the nesting sight. Only after a couple of days post-hatching does she allow the male to guard the fry, and even then only for short periods. It seems that she balances her hunger with how much she trusts the male, and eventually she gets hungry enough to let the male "baby sit" while she goes off and forages.

They only guard the babies for about a month. After that point, if you leave the fry in the tank, they will view them as potential threats. This doesn't mean they'll kill them (I have about twenty 3-month old juveniles with my pair of P. taeniatus at the moment). But it does seem to inhibit further spawning. While my pair have laid eggs and allowed them to hatch, eventually they seem to eat the wrigglers, perhaps because the tank is too busy for them to feel comfortable about rearing the brood.

Cheers, Neale

Mama Pelvicachromis taeniatus with fry (click image for more).

You should never split a pair up once they have bred, the pair bonding is for life but if there is a split either manually by you or from the bond breaking down between them it is highly likely you will never get them to pair up again and there will more than likely be violence between them until one is removed or killed.
Usually the male is the dominant fish but they both play an aggressive role, the female will stay in the cave with the eggs while the male guards outside the cave but in the case of a large intruder the female will join the male outside in seeing off the threat.

 

[Jozlyn]

thanks for all the advice, but unfortunately both fish died yesterday

 

[dirtydog]

did you move them back in the end or did they stay in the smaller tank? was it just too much harrasment from each of them do you think,...?

 

[Jozlyn]

did you move them back in the end or did they stay in the smaller tank? was it just too much harrasment from each of them do you think,...?

I ended up moving them back and moving the guppies into the 22lt where they're happy as little fish can be I really think it was the stress of the trip (3 hours in a bag in the car) along with being moved twice in 24 hours.

My husband got me two more yesterday from a different shop, (I think he felt sorry for me because he knew how upset I was about them dying) they're not nearly as healthy (or pretty) as the other two were and the female is a third bigger than the male, she's in full colour and really looks quite pretty, but she's harrassing the poor male relentlessly! Hopefully it'll settle down, he's not showing any signs of stress, YET!