Do Fish Have To Drink?

[TylerFerretLord]

you follow the guides of that yeah we can choose to eat if we are not but we eat to live not live to eat and thats the same for any animal as we are all animals and all run on animal instincts dont we?

You seem to be ignoring my point. Yes, we do have instincts, but I'm saying that as sentient beings we can choose to act on them or to not.

Also, you may not be a native English speaker or have some other issues with the written word, but it would make it a lot easier for people to understand you if you could try and put some punctuation into your comments. It is somewhat difficult at the moment to be entirely sure of your desired meaning with the way you are typing.

Thank you for this. I was trying to not mention this as I can be very blunt and tactless, and did not want to insult.

 

[idlefingers]

Once again, maybe I'm missing something but I fail to see how a human's ability for conscious decision relates to fish or the discussion.

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Once again, maybe I'm missing something but I fail to see how a human's ability for conscious decision relates to fish or the discussion.

I'm pretty sure it started with three-finger's post saying:

That's not evidence though. I'm beginning to think your original statement was based more on your personal beliefs on animals rather than science.

You shouldent really make statements such as "animals do not have the congnative ability to make those kind of decisions" on this forum without providing any evidence.

Especially since this humans are classified under the kingdom Animalia.

Personally, I don't believe there is any definitive way to prove that animals do or don't have the ability to decide not to drink any more than you can prove the person next to you does.

Which then continued with madgap then kat then that's where I came in.

Wait, did I take that question too literaly?

I suggest we stop this debate, as no one can win and it's obvious that we're not going to change our opinions.

 

[kat11180]

its a stupid topic for a fish forum anyway and can i ask is this a fish forum or a grammer school??

 

[andywg]

its a stupid topic for a fish forum anyway and can i ask is this a fish forum or a grammer school??

This is the science part of the forum and the question has some merit because some might not realise that fish ingest their water in a copmletely different way and in a somewhat different process.

By using correct English it helps to eliminate the possibility of misunderstanding what you have written and makes it easier to debate the substance. Really, how much effort is it to use those two keys to the left of the 'M'?

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

Not that i don't thinkl things are off topic but...
Fishes do infact drink. They drink in order to maintain homeostasis in their environment. They either drink more water and excrete less in a hypertonic environment or drink less and excrete more in a hypotonic. And yes fish are capable of making decisions. They choose not to eat dont they? When some fishes get injured they may choose not to eat. When my moray fell ill because of a wound in its through it stopped eating. It learned that if it tried to swallow the food that it would cause pain, so thus even though it had not eaten for a feew weeks it chose not to eat because it did not want the pain.

 

[madgap]

its a stupid topic for a fish forum anyway and can i ask is this a fish forum or a grammer school??

A somewhat arrogant comment from you, Kat. I had rather enjoyed your words of wisdom up until this.
Yes, this is grammer school and university to anyone seeking to learn about their fish. Regardless of how pathetic you may deem a question, it is still just that, a question. And is worthy of answers. Be aware that people may look at your questions as "stupid" from this day on. Lets hope not, eh?

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Not that i don't thinkl things are off topic but...
Fishes do infact drink. They drink in order to maintain homeostasis in their environment. They either drink more water and excrete less in a hypertonic environment or drink less and excrete more in a hypotonic. And yes fish are capable of making decisions. They choose not to eat dont they? When some fishes get injured they may choose not to eat. When my moray fell ill because of a wound in its through it stopped eating. It learned that if it tried to swallow the food that it would cause pain, so thus even though it had not eaten for a feew weeks it chose not to eat because it did not want the pain.

I wonder if it's worth continuing this.

A fish eats because it is instinctual, not because it just decides to all of a sudden. The moray stopped eating because of pain, and most organisms are hardwired to think pain=bad. Swallowing food most likely aggravated the wound, or possibly even opened it up again.

EDIT: Why was this moved?

 

[kat11180]

its a stupid topic for a fish forum anyway and can i ask is this a fish forum or a grammer school??

This is the science part of the forum and the question has some merit because some might not realise that fish ingest their water in a copmletely different way and in a somewhat different process. By using correct English it helps to eliminate the possibility of misunderstanding what you have written and makes it easier to debate the substance. Really, how much effort is it to use those two keys to the left of the 'M'?

erm left you sure about that thought they was on the right hmmmm must be wrong

its a stupid topic for a fish forum anyway and can i ask is this a fish forum or a grammer school??

A somewhat arrogant comment from you, Kat. I had rather enjoyed your words of wisdom up until this.Yes, this is grammer school and university to anyone seeking to learn about their fish. Regardless of how pathetic you may deem a question, it is still just that, a question. And is worthy of answers. Be aware that people may look at your questions as "stupid" from this day on. Lets hope not, eh?

i wont say sorry for any remark as i was only pointing out that the topic was ment to be "do fish drink" and not whats kats grammer like this is a fish forum not a school for grammer i use it everyday and when i get home i want and need to relax and the last thing on my mind is bloody grammer

 

[The-Wolf]

there is nowt wrong with my granma!

 

[SouthernCross]

Ok, stepping in with my $0.02.

You guys can't go comparing fish, humans, dogs, guinea pigs etc. Just because your dog does one thing doesn't mean another animal has the same abilities. We all have a different level of cognitive function and brain structure which reflects on our cognitive abilities and level of awareness. If you've ever had the opportunity to look at (or do yourself) brain dissections its incredibly obvious - brains become more advanced in structure with intelligence. For example, I got to dissect a sheep brain at university, and afterwards I felt very justified in maintaining my stance that our sheep on our property are freaking morons, , but I could hardly blame them, given their poor little primitive brains! Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent.

Humans have the most highly developed brains (consequence of evolution and all that jazz) and animal brains have evolved over time to suit our individual needs. Brains are attuned to the information that is most relevant to that particular organism. But the main point I wanted to make was about the concept of 'awareness'. VERY few animals display conscious awareness - another term for it is 'theory of mind', or the ability to recognise yourself and your own thoughts and motivations, and appreciate the thoughts and motivations of others, and recognise that they are unique to them. Some humans have disorders (low functioning autism is a great example) where they show deficits in this kind of ability. Only very few animals have been shown to display conscious awareness (and in essence make informed 'choices' as you guys are calling it) in the way humans can.

Some apes, e.g. chimpanzees can do it. One of the classic tests they do with animals is a mirror test. They put some red paint above the animals eyebrow. If the animal can demonstrate theory of mind, it will recognise that in the mirror is a reflection of itself, and it will wipe the paint off its own eyebrow. If the animal doesn't have this cognitive awareness ability, it will attempt to approach the reflection like it is another animal and will try and touch the reflection. I know this has been shown with chimps. Don't quote me, but there may be some dolphin evidence too. Interesting how its social animals!

Anyway, the point I wanted to make (and bringing it back to fish!) is that fish most certainly do not show this kind of awareness. We've all seen our fish drawn to their reflections to the glass, trying to interact with it, attack it, mate with it, etc! They do not recognise that it is their own reflection. --> Fish do not have higher level cognitive awareness. So I guess you could argue fish don't have the capacity to make 'choices' either.
If this argument persists, we cannot go comparing across animals as we all differ in awareness functioning. In fact, I'm sure some fish species are more intelligent than others too. But thats the main point I was trying to make - a lot of the points ppl are bringing up here (mainly about other animals) are useless to the fish argument.

*Takes of honours psychology student hat*

 

[ShoC]

Wow,
I have caused some debate.
I seen mentioned a few times about how my question was not Specific enough and for that I am sorry.

sorry Kat you feel this is a stupid topic but you have in no way been forced to post or read this thread!!

when I said drink I meant in terms of how mammals (land species) will suffer dehydration and will drink in order to survive.
Do fish have that need!!!!
I understand they pass water but is that just for purposes as many may have stated already!

p.s Lets all calm down

 

[andywg]

when I said drink I meant in terms of how mammals (land species) will suffer dehydration and will drink in order to survive.
Do fish have that need!!!!
I understand they pass water but is that just for purposes as many may have stated already!

Fish do not drink to avoid dehydration in the way mammals do; water is not swallowed and dealt with by the digestive system as a result of thirst. Fish are swimming in water and so have no great desire to drink come over them like we do as they are constantly taking water from the envrionment into themselves and then processing it.

Broadly speaking water is taken in through the gills and passed out after passing over the gills (though there are many adaptations to this). As water is passed over the gills the fish will take in oxygen, expel CO2 and obtain/lose various salts and ions to osmoregulate.

Salt water fish have a lower salt concentration in their body than the surrounding water, so the fish actively push out many salts as ions to allow them to retain water. Fresh water fish have a lower salt concentration than their sourroundings and so are constantly passing water out at the gills to maintain their internal salt levels.

If you pick up an ichthyology text book it will explain the chemical reactions that take place across the gills and the most common ion exchanges and how the environment affects them. I would be tempted to go into more details but this thread has been shifted from the scientific forum I shall not bother you all.

 

[ShoC]

I found what you said very interesting

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Fresh water fish have a lower salt concentration than their sourroundings and so are constantly passing water out at the gills to maintain their internal salt levels.

I think you made a mistake, dpn't freshwater fish have a igher concentration of salt?