Do Fish Have To Drink?

[kat11180]

thats right its like a fish will only choose to breed when water conditions are right for it to a dog/cat etc will choose to drink when it needs to it wont if it dont so what gives anyone a right to say they dont have the congnative ability to choose to drink eat sleep breed etc etc just cause there not humans it does,nt mean they dont have the intelligence to choose

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Most of the stuff some of you are posting in defese of whether or not an animal can choose to drink is not proof that they can.

It is instinctual to drink water, when the animal's brain tells it that it needs too drink, it does so. You won't see a healthy animal dying of dehydration next to a river.

Also, saying that someone need to provide evidence that something is true is a double-sided blade. Can you provide evidence it isn't true?

thats right its like a fish will only choose to breed when water conditions are right for it to a dog/cat etc will choose to drink when it needs to it wont if it dont so what gives anyone a right to say they dont have the congnative ability to choose to drink eat sleep breed etc etc just cause there not humans it does,nt mean they dont have the intelligence to choose

See above, it's instinctual for something to breed when the conditions for it are best, same thing with the water, it drinks because it needs to, not because it choses.

Personally, I don't believe there is any definitive way to prove that animals do or don't have the ability to decide not to drink any more than you can prove the person next to you does.

See above, double-sided blade, blah-blah. If this is your stance don't keep claiming that they can choose.

 

[three-fingers]

Also, saying that someone need to provide evidence that something is true is a double-sided blade. Can you provide evidence it isn't true?

I see what your saying, but if someone posts something such as "", then they should have to back it up with some evidence. See here. Also here.

See above, double-sided blade, blah-blah. If this is your stance don't keep claiming that they can choose.

Where have I claimed they can choose?

 

[TylerFerretLord]

Also, saying that someone need to provide evidence that something is true is a double-sided blade. Can you provide evidence it isn't true?

I see what your saying, but if someone posts something such as "", then they should have to back it up with some evidence. See here. Also here.

Well, that's something that is mildly fanastical, (loch ness monster), and this isn't. But I still understand your point.

Where have I claimed they can choose?

Sorry, must have confused you with someone else. My fault.

But anyway, most of the people here need to provide evidence also, as this topic seems to be filled with things such as 'my dog asks fo water when it's thirsty ((again I raise the instinct defense)), so that proves that animals can choose)).

i belive all animals have the congnative ability to choose to drink if i dont put water in my dogs bowl she will tell me when she needs a drink that ther aint nothing for her to drink so in theory she has choose to drink right or wrong???

 

[madgap]

So, is it instinct that a person acts upon when they rob a bank?
Is it instinct which makes my dog select which cushion to rest on?
I believe that fish make choice's, and not only act upon instinct.
However, that said, I do believe that we and all animals, including fish, do do things by their nature. An innate action and reaction.
My origional responce was a question to another persons answer. I didn't answer the thread question at that time.

Ok, back on to the thread. I reckon that fish do consume water. As natural as mamals breath air. Without even giving it a second thought.

This post and all post's posted by madgap are copyrighted. Any attempt to argue with these posts will result in severe boils of the forehead.

 

[andywg]

Hmm, some people have gone off on tangents here.

To answer the OP, first we must decide exactly what we mean by the verb "to drink". Wiki states:

The word drink is primarily a verb, meaning to ingest liquids

All fish have the ability to take on water through the process of osmoregulation. This is unlikely to be thought of as drinking in the way that we humans do (taking on the water necessary at various intervals during the day) as the fish will be constantly interacting with the water. Osmoregulation takes place across the gill membranes of the fish which is also the site at which oxygen is absorbed into the fish.

So in conclusion, fish are certainly ingesting water in some form or another, but I do not believe they do so by swallowing the water into the digestive tract as humans do.

 

[andywg]

Hmm, some people have gone off on tangents here.

To answer the OP, first we must decide exactly what we mean by the verb "to drink". Wiki states:

The word drink is primarily a verb, meaning to ingest liquids

All fish have the ability to take on water through the process of osmoregulation. This is unlikely to be thought of as drinking in the way that we humans do (taking on the water necessary at various intervals during the day) as the fish will be constantly interacting with the water. Osmoregulation takes place across the gill membranes of the fish which is also the site at which oxygen is absorbed into the fish.

So in conclusion, fish are certainly ingesting water in some form or another, but I do not believe they do so by swallowing the water into the digestive tract as humans do.

 

[kat11180]

Most of the stuff some of you are posting in defese of whether or not an animal can choose to drink is not proof that they can.

It is instinctual to drink water, when the animal's brain tells it that it needs too drink, it does so. You won't see a healthy animal dying of dehydration next to a river.

Also, saying that someone need to provide evidence that something is true is a double-sided blade. Can you provide evidence it isn't true?

thats right its like a fish will only choose to breed when water conditions are right for it to a dog/cat etc will choose to drink when it needs to it wont if it dont so what gives anyone a right to say they dont have the congnative ability to choose to drink eat sleep breed etc etc just cause there not humans it does,nt mean they dont have the intelligence to choose

See above, it's instinctual for something to breed when the conditions for it are best, same thing with the water, it drinks because it needs to, not because it choses.

Personally, I don't believe there is any definitive way to prove that animals do or don't have the ability to decide not to drink any more than you can prove the person next to you does.

See above, double-sided blade, blah-blah. If this is your stance don't keep claiming that they can choose.

so what your saying is that its a involuntary act for a animal to drink cause its brian says it needs to drink so does so not choose to drink when it feels like it? well then a human is the same you wont drink if you dont need to you drink when your body says you need to so infact no one has the congnative ability to choose to drink as your saying?

 

[TylerFerretLord]

So, is it instinct that a person acts upon when they rob a bank?
Is it instinct which makes my dog select which cushion to rest on?
I believe that fish make choice's, and not only act upon instinct.
However, that said, I do believe that we and all animals, including fish, do do things by their nature. An innate action and reaction.
My origional responce was a question to another persons answer. I didn't answer the thread question at that time.

Ok, back on to the thread. I reckon that fish do consume water. As natural as mamals breath air. Without even giving it a second thought.

This post and all post's posted by madgap are copyrighted. Any attempt to argue with these posts will result in severe boils of the forehead.

HUmans can choose, so the robber example doesn't work here.

so what your saying is that its a involuntary act for a animal to drink cause its brian says it needs to drink so does so not choose to drink when it feels like it?

Yes that is the basic thing I'm saying here. Brain notices slight dehydration=Brain tells animal to seek out water=Animal seeks out water. Stimulis, response.

well then a human is the same you wont drink if you dont need to you drink when your body says you need to so infact no one has the congnative ability to choose to drink as your saying?

Humans can choose. We are subject to the same instincts (food, water, sex, shelter) as any other animal, but we can make a choice. Please stop trying to apply what I'm saying to a person.

I consider a person anything that is sentient. That means apes, some monkeys, humans, dolphins, etc.

I'm not saying that animals that are not sentient are not complex things with individual personalities (which, imo is just learned responses to certain stimuli), but you're giving them too much credit. I love my dogs and thir personalities, but they still are just animals, and work on instinct, even in their highly domesticated state.

Don't raise the 'but humans are animals too' thing, we're sentient, it's a different thing.

But really, this is just going to be a long debate in which no one wins or loses because as of now because there is no way to judge if an animal can choose, and we're merely sticking to our opinions, and in some cases, getting emotional.

 

[MHunt]

As a creature that lives in water, it surely cannot be said that fish actually "drink" in the same way that mammals do. But they have evolved to be able to regulate the amount of liquid that is in their bodies.

 

[Musho3210]

So, is it instinct that a person acts upon when they rob a bank?
Is it instinct which makes my dog select which cushion to rest on?
I believe that fish make choice's, and not only act upon instinct.
However, that said, I do believe that we and all animals, including fish, do do things by their nature. An innate action and reaction.
My origional responce was a question to another persons answer. I didn't answer the thread question at that time.

Ok, back on to the thread. I reckon that fish do consume water. As natural as mamals breath air. Without even giving it a second thought.

This post and all post's posted by madgap are copyrighted. Any attempt to argue with these posts will result in severe boils of the forehead.

Do people have to rob banks to survive
Do dogs need to sleep on a pillow to survive

Try dehydrating yourself next to a roaring river with a spectacular water fall and the water is really really clear and really really cool on a really hot humid day. I dont think most could, we reach a certain point and a part of our mind blocks out another part and we will drink.

Its like you cant kill yourself by holding your breath.

I would like to see what the humans act like at the very edge of insanity, we deffinately wont be "choosing" so much.

 

[andywg]

Try dehydrating yourself next to a roaring river with a spectacular water fall and the water is really really clear and really really cool on a really hot humid day. I dont think most could, we reach a certain point and a part of our mind blocks out another part and we will drink.

Its like you cant kill yourself by holding your breath.

You can't kill yourself by holding your breath because breathing is a semi-autonomous function. The body has the ability to handle breathing in the unconcious part of the brain, so evven if you did hold your breath until you lost conciousness, the body would automatically resume breathing.

I do not think drinking can be classed as autonomous, I have never heard of someone drinking in their sleep for example. It would probably be perfectly possible to die of dehydration next a river, should you choose to do so as humans have the power of reason which can overcome the desires of instinct.

Consider people who die on hunger strike while there are people there trying to feed them and offer them food. If your premise on the mind blocking out other parts and drinking is right, surely no one would die on hunger strike?

 

[TylerFerretLord]

So, is it instinct that a person acts upon when they rob a bank?
Is it instinct which makes my dog select which cushion to rest on?
I believe that fish make choice's, and not only act upon instinct.
However, that said, I do believe that we and all animals, including fish, do do things by their nature. An innate action and reaction.
My origional responce was a question to another persons answer. I didn't answer the thread question at that time.

Ok, back on to the thread. I reckon that fish do consume water. As natural as mamals breath air. Without even giving it a second thought.

This post and all post's posted by madgap are copyrighted. Any attempt to argue with these posts will result in severe boils of the forehead.

Do people have to rob banks to survive
Do dogs need to sleep on a pillow to survive

Try dehydrating yourself next to a roaring river with a spectacular water fall and the water is really really clear and really really cool on a really hot humid day. I dont think most could, we reach a certain point and a part of our mind blocks out another part and we will drink.

Its like you cant kill yourself by holding your breath.

I would like to see what the humans act like at the very edge of insanity, we deffinately wont be "choosing" so much.

You're not thinking this through enough.

It is possible to starve to death or die of dehydration when you have food. Heard of people who die of anorexia? And the hunger strike example given by andywg above me. Strong will can, and has, canceled out survival instinct. Look up the burning monk, for example. Or living buddhas. They ignored all instincts and died without resisting.

And the part about someone going insane doesn't play a part in this. They are insane. Simple as that. And some insane people have been known to refuse to eat.

 

[kat11180]

So, is it instinct that a person acts upon when they rob a bank?
Is it instinct which makes my dog select which cushion to rest on?
I believe that fish make choice's, and not only act upon instinct.
However, that said, I do believe that we and all animals, including fish, do do things by their nature. An innate action and reaction.
My origional responce was a question to another persons answer. I didn't answer the thread question at that time.

Ok, back on to the thread. I reckon that fish do consume water. As natural as mamals breath air. Without even giving it a second thought.

This post and all post's posted by madgap are copyrighted. Any attempt to argue with these posts will result in severe boils of the forehead.

Do people have to rob banks to survive
Do dogs need to sleep on a pillow to survive

Try dehydrating yourself next to a roaring river with a spectacular water fall and the water is really really clear and really really cool on a really hot humid day. I dont think most could, we reach a certain point and a part of our mind blocks out another part and we will drink.

Its like you cant kill yourself by holding your breath.

I would like to see what the humans act like at the very edge of insanity, we deffinately wont be "choosing" so much.

You're not thinking this through enough.

It is possible to starve to death or die of dehydration when you have food. Heard of people who die of anorexia? And the hunger strike example given by andywg above me. Strong will can, and has, canceled out survival instinct. Look up the burning monk, for example. Or living buddhas. They ignored all instincts and died without resisting.

And the part about someone going insane doesn't play a part in this. They are insane. Simple as that. And some insane people have been known to refuse to eat.

im sorry im really gonna have a go on your anorexia remark you DONT choose to be anorexic it isnt something you do it is a medical problem of the brian the produces chemicals that tells your body you dont need food as when you are anorexic you dont feel hunger so your telling everyone else to get there facts right before posting its you who need to do some research first your saying people choose to eat drink etc or not but its your brian that tells you that you need that and you drink cause you feel the need to if theres a fault with this as in anorexia then your body dont no when it needs what it needs its your body that tells you you are thursty hungry etc you follow the guides of that yeah we can choose to eat if we are not but we eat to live not live to eat and thats the same for any animal as we are all animals and all run on animal instincts dont we?

 

[andywg]

im sorry im really gonna have a go on your anorexia remark you DONT choose to be anorexic it isnt something you do it is a medical problem of the brian the produces chemicals that tells your body you dont need food as when you are anorexic you dont feel hunger

I am afraid that wiki doesn't agree with you on the description

Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight. Individuals with anorexia often control body weight by voluntary starvation, purging, vomiting, excessive exercise, or other weight control measures, such as diet pills or diuretic drugs.

While some form of chemical interaction may occur in the brain, the disease stems from a belief that the person is overweight, no matter how they look. As a result these people fail to eat, despite experiencing hunger. Whether they truly choose to be anorexic or not is probably open to debate among the scientific community, as some studies indicate that 50% of the variance for the development of an eating disorder could be down to genetic factors.

so your telling everyone else to get there facts right before posting its you who need to do some research first your saying people choose to eat drink etc or not but its your brian that tells you that you need that and you drink cause you feel the need to

Think this through. Have you ever found yourself hungry but not eaten for some time because you are choosing to do something else (such as watch TV or play the computer)? That shows that the actual action of eating or drinking is a voluntary one. We choose to make our muscles move to food and commence consuming. While the need to eat or drink is an autonomous system, the response is not.

if theres a fault with this as in anorexia then your body dont no when it needs what it needs its your body that tells you you are thursty hungry etc

Well, the anorexia is a bit different, it is not a disease where the body is creating the wrong chemicals to stimulate hunger, but rather a psychological eating disorder. People suffering from anorexia can still feel hungy, but they just don't act on it, or try and suppress it.

you follow the guides of that yeah we can choose to eat if we are not but we eat to live not live to eat and thats the same for any animal as we are all animals and all run on animal instincts dont we?

We are certainly subject to animal instincts, but not run by them. Many males see attractive females and may well get an urge to copulate with them, few will just walk up and try to do so though. Society has many rules to prevent animal instincts from actually running the show. There are some schools of thoughts that the same instincts manifest themselves slightly differently but still get acted upon, but that is another debate all together.


On a final note, you seem to be becoming somewhat accusational in your tone ("your telling everyone else to get there facts right before posting its you who need to do some research first"). This is the scientific forum and the idea is to debate the substance, not the person. If you feel the person has said something factually incorrect, provide some evidence to refute it. I admit I used wikipedia which is not ideal, but it is favoured against unsupported comments.

Also, you may not be a native English speaker or have some other issues with the written word, but it would make it a lot easier for people to understand you if you could try and put some punctuation into your comments. It is somewhat difficult at the moment to be entirely sure of your desired meaning with the way you are typing.

Cheers

Andy