Discus

[DiscusKeeper403]

Really the diet was the thing I was sure I always had right.Mix of bloodworm, tetra prima, glassworm, beefheart, and discus flakes...Your right though, that's what I would have imagined it to be primarily caused by.2 however died of a disease which I managed to introduce from another tank (can't remember exactly what it was now), and maybe coincidence but the one which looked the least stunted died a few months after any of the others.The breeder who I bought them from was moving house, and so needed them gone quickly.I got a bargain with loads of foam filters, 6 discus, and he advised us all what to do and feed then...I'm 100% they weren't stunted when I first got them though, as you could tell he loved the hobby and all.
Shame he didn't give me his 9" snakeskins which were from show winner parentage. Best discus I have seen to date in person.

Lol we sort of hijacked this thread.

Yeah, that sounds alright. Normally discus fed on a heavy protein/fat diet (beefheart) will not last any longer then 4 years. It really depends how much beefheart you fed. I feed beefheart strictly once a month and no more.

So it died from a disease then? Sort of confused, but if so that's too bad! That is one thing you need to be careful about with Discus and try not to mix equipment used on other tanks.

 

[cheesy feet]

Really the diet was the thing I was sure I always had right.Mix of bloodworm, tetra prima, glassworm, beefheart, and discus flakes...Your right though, that's what I would have imagined it to be primarily caused by.2 however died of a disease which I managed to introduce from another tank (can't remember exactly what it was now), and maybe coincidence but the one which looked the least stunted died a few months after any of the others.The breeder who I bought them from was moving house, and so needed them gone quickly.I got a bargain with loads of foam filters, 6 discus, and he advised us all what to do and feed then...I'm 100% they weren't stunted when I first got them though, as you could tell he loved the hobby and all.
Shame he didn't give me his 9" snakeskins which were from show winner parentage. Best discus I have seen to date in person.

Lol we sort of hijacked this thread.

Yeah, that sounds alright. Normally discus fed on a heavy protein/fat diet (beefheart) will not last any longer then 4 years. It really depends how much beefheart you fed. I feed beefheart strictly once a month and no more.

So it died from a disease then? Sort of confused, but if so that's too bad! That is one thing you need to be careful about with Discus and try not to mix equipment used on other tanks.

Oops lol.I must have been feeding in about 40% of their diet prima/flakes...I'd like to know where you get they only live for 4 years? Beef heart varies greatly in quality, according to most it is best to make your own (again this breeder made his own lol), and there has been no scientific proof that it is bad for them as far as I am aware, and it is continually used by breeders to give discus optimum protein for growth...Although I definitely wouldn't use it exclusively...Just not natural is it.
Definitely, they can be very susceptable to some diseases, e.g HITH, nd this disease on appearing killed them overnight (2 of the 6 of them).
I'm going to bed- so tired.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Oops lol.I must have been feeding in about 40% of their diet prima/flakes...I'd like to know where you get they only live for 4 years? Beef heart varies greatly in quality, according to most it is best to make your own (again this breeder made his own lol), and there has been no scientific proof that it is bad for them as far as I am aware, and it is continually used by breeders to give discus optimum protein for growth...Although I definitely wouldn't use it exclusively...Just not natural is it.
Definitely, they can be very susceptable to some diseases, e.g HITH, nd this disease on appearing killed them overnight (2 of the 6 of them).
I'm going to bed- so tired.

I was told by a discus breeder who fed primarily beef heart (this was home made) that his Discus lived 3-4 years on average. There is proof linking a high protien/fat diet to a lesser life span in Discus, I am not sure if I have link book marked (I do have a really good discus diet article) either way I am not using my own computer as I forgot it (on vacation see if I can do some digging later.) The lowered life span is primarily due to health problems from discus being over weight. Yes a lot of breeders use beefheart, a fad ushered in by Jack Wattley due to it being a good and cheap source of growth. Discus breeders will normally fed heavily on beefheart to grow them out quickly and cheapily for sale, but this is only until they reach the 4 or 4.5 inch range and then I hear some breeders slowly ween them onto other foods (although a lot of times beefheart is still fed.) Using it for a short period of time as juvyniles should be fine, it isn't such a big deal for me, as they need the extra protien and fat in order to grow properly, but I would be angry purchasing adult Discus that have been fed primarily beefheart for their whole lives, even reputable breeders can be greedy The link I had, showed a study about Discus eating a lot of vegatation in the wild (it even showed a break down of a single wild discus(es?) stomach content) and inside the stomach the discus had a very large amount of vegatation and not a lot of protien/fat, the shape and size of the digestive system and intestines also pointed to a fish that is mainly omnivorous. This shows Discus should be fed a decent amount of vegatation (a part of the diet commonly missed.) You also have to remember it takes 2 years for a Discus in the wild to get to adult size, discus on a high protien diet can be grown to adult size in 7-8 months (again the main reason for breeders using it.) This alone proves that feeding such high amounts of protien/fat is unhealthy and unnatural and IMO shouldn't be used any longer then getting them to the 3.5-4.5" range (but ask some knowledgable disucs keepers and the will say NO beefheart ever lol.) But team that up with that fact that In Discus fat is stored mainly in the liver, body, head and kidneys (similar to humans) and health problems are normally similar to the ones found in over weight humans, and that should be solid proof Discus and high amounts of fat/protien should be avoided.

 

[Davo86]

What's exactly wrong with the tetras?I know they say active fish can stress them out, but this is largely a load of tosh ime, unless the fish are large and boisterous.

Buenos Aries are by far one of the most aggressive/prone to fin nip species of tetra IME
and we all know that keeping them in small numbers i.e. only 2 in this case generally makes them act even more unruly.

I can just see the Discus having their fins shredded

 

[cheesy feet]

Oops lol.I must have been feeding in about 40% of their diet prima/flakes...I'd like to know where you get they only live for 4 years? Beef heart varies greatly in quality, according to most it is best to make your own (again this breeder made his own lol), and there has been no scientific proof that it is bad for them as far as I am aware, and it is continually used by breeders to give discus optimum protein for growth...Although I definitely wouldn't use it exclusively...Just not natural is it.
Definitely, they can be very susceptable to some diseases, e.g HITH, nd this disease on appearing killed them overnight (2 of the 6 of them).
I'm going to bed- so tired.

I was told by a discus breeder who fed primarily beef heart (this was home made) that his Discus lived 3-4 years on average. There is proof linking a high protien/fat diet to a lesser life span in Discus, I am not sure if I have link book marked (I do have a really good discus diet article) either way I am not using my own computer as I forgot it (on vacation see if I can do some digging later.) The lowered life span is primarily due to health problems from discus being over weight. Yes a lot of breeders use beefheart, a fad ushered in by Jack Wattley due to it being a good and cheap source of growth. Discus breeders will normally fed heavily on beefheart to grow them out quickly and cheapily for sale, but this is only until they reach the 4 or 4.5 inch range and then I hear some breeders slowly ween them onto other foods (although a lot of times beefheart is still fed.) Using it for a short period of time as juvyniles should be fine, it isn't such a big deal for me, as they need the extra protien and fat in order to grow properly, but I would be angry purchasing adult Discus that have been fed primarily beefheart for their whole lives, even reputable breeders can be greedy The link I had, showed a study about Discus eating a lot of vegatation in the wild (it even showed a break down of a single wild discus(es?) stomach content) and inside the stomach the discus had a very large amount of vegatation and not a lot of protien/fat, the shape and size of the digestive system and intestines also pointed to a fish that is mainly omnivorous. This shows Discus should be fed a decent amount of vegatation (a part of the diet commonly missed.) You also have to remember it takes 2 years for a Discus in the wild to get to adult size, discus on a high protien diet can be grown to adult size in 7-8 months (again the main reason for breeders using it.) This alone proves that feeding such high amounts of protien/fat is unhealthy and unnatural and IMO shouldn't be used any longer then getting them to the 3.5-4.5" range (but ask some knowledgable disucs keepers and the will say NO beefheart ever lol.) But team that up with that fact that In Discus fat is stored mainly in the liver, body, head and kidneys (similar to humans) and health problems are normally similar to the ones found in over weight humans, and that should be solid proof Discus and high amounts of fat/protien should be avoided.

Yup definitely agree it should be fed in good balance, as with any fatty food, as said before, it's not natural.And when adult there isn't any real need...Its like if you feed most things in excess, similar to the waxworm/mealworm for reptiles, good to gain weight and promote some growth, but feed too much and of course you will have problems, such as fatty liver disease.
Seems ridiculous a breeder is reducing their life spans to 3-4 years, just so they they can grow quickly..

What's exactly wrong with the tetras?I know they say active fish can stress them out, but this is largely a load of tosh ime, unless the fish are large and boisterous.

Buenos Aries are by far one of the most aggressive/prone to fin nip species of tetra IME
and we all know that keeping them in small numbers i.e. only 2 in this case generally makes them act even more unruly.

I can just see the Discus having their fins shredded

Ahh I see, when I looked them up it was said that they were peaceful

 

[mattlee]

dont worry about hijacking the thread.... its all good learning info to my build up to possibly buying discus! what size are they to be classed as adult?

 

[Davo86]

dont worry about hijacking the thread.... its all good learning info to my build up to possibly buying discus! what size are they to be classed as adult?

Once they reach about 4.5-5"+ they become easier to care for

 

[cheesy feet]

An adult should be around 7", some poorer quality discus only reach about 6" though.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

An adult should be around 7", some poorer quality discus only reach about 6" though.

IMO 5-6 inches is more common, but females will normally stay smaller then males. Don't necessarily think poorer quality means smaller though. I have a Jeffery Yang Discus, he is a pretty well known breeder and very reputable. The rep thought it was probably a female but it is full grown at 5". The strain is also a major factor in size, Wayne Ng's Blue Knights for instance, have the potential to reach 11", where as I have never seen a checkerboard pigeon bigger then 5" and hear this strain is a slower grower and normally stays a little smaller.

 

[cheesy feet]

An adult should be around 7", some poorer quality discus only reach about 6" though.

IMO 5-6 inches is more common, but females will normally stay smaller then males. Don't necessarily think poorer quality means smaller though. I have a Jeffery Yang Discus, he is a pretty well known breeder and very reputable. The rep thought it was probably a female but it is full grown at 5". The strain is also a major factor in size, Wayne Ng's Blue Knights for instance, have the potential to reach 11", where as I have never seen a checkerboard pigeon bigger then 5" and hear this strain is a slower grower and normally stays a little smaller.

Good point, although tbh most the adults under 6" are poor quality...Adults which are 5" are usually stunted, as mine were.They were all about 5-6 inches.That was pigeon bloods, red turqs, and blue turqs.

 

[cheesy feet]

Definitely must get myself some more discus though.I have an RO 50gpd unit, a couple of tanks laying around and spare filters, which after 3 different fittings still didn't fit onto the pipework properly ...
Also a 5ft sump tank..Would be perfect for a breeding system.
I'm dreaming here, I have no money, and I have other stuff to spend money on

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

An adult should be around 7", some poorer quality discus only reach about 6" though.

IMO 5-6 inches is more common, but females will normally stay smaller then males. Don't necessarily think poorer quality means smaller though. I have a Jeffery Yang Discus, he is a pretty well known breeder and very reputable. The rep thought it was probably a female but it is full grown at 5". The strain is also a major factor in size, Wayne Ng's Blue Knights for instance, have the potential to reach 11", where as I have never seen a checkerboard pigeon bigger then 5" and hear this strain is a slower grower and normally stays a little smaller.

Good point, although tbh most the adults under 6" are poor quality...Adults which are 5" are usually stunted, as mine were.They were all about 5-6 inches.That was pigeon bloods, red turqs, and blue turqs.

Still have to disagree. There is no way my 5" fish is stunted, perfect body shape and eye to body ratio. If you can find some sort of information backing up your claim that fish that are under 6" are poorer quality and stunted then I will belive you, until then I am not so sure lol.

Definitely must get myself some more discus though.I have an RO 50gpd unit, a couple of tanks laying around and spare filters, which after 3 different fittings still didn't fit onto the pipework properly ...
Also a 5ft sump tank..Would be perfect for a breeding system.
I'm dreaming here, I have no money, and I have other stuff to spend money on

Yeah I hear ya. If you are comitted just get em' small and cheap and grow them out

 

[cheesy feet]

Still have to disagree. There is no way my 5" fish is stunted, perfect body shape and eye to body ratio. If you can find some sort of information backing up your claim that fish that are under 6" are poorer quality and stunted then I will belive you, until then I am not so sure lol.

What I'm saying is on the whole most adult discus that are 5" are stunted, as even the smaller subspecies of discus out of the two species (can't remember which ones) should reach up to 6"...So actually I'm not saying all are, just most..As you have described, the easiest way to tell a stunted discus is large eyes in proportion to the body and a triangular shape..I may be mushing my sizes here, as I haven't been keeping or looking up much about discus for a year.

Definitely must get myself some more discus though.I have an RO 50gpd unit, a couple of tanks laying around and spare filters, which after 3 different fittings still didn't fit onto the pipework properly ...
Also a 5ft sump tank..Would be perfect for a breeding system.
I'm dreaming here, I have no money, and I have other stuff to spend money on

Yeah I hear ya. If you are comitted just get em' small and cheap and grow them out

Trouble is I also have my reptile hobby, which I'm delving into similar things (currently breeding leopard geckos and water dragons) and want to have a go at breeding some royal python morphs...
That will probably mean very little if you are not into reps

Messed up quotations.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Well I still think 5" should be fine, but it like I said can vary on the sex, strain and even specific fish. Guess we will to agree to disagree on this one.


And you are correct, never been a huge reptile fan although I did catch and keep an iguana for a day, and kept a few little lizzards for a few months. Know a little bit for work too, but that's about as far as I go

 

[cheesy feet]

Well I still think 5" should be fine, but it like I said can vary on the sex, strain and even specific fish. Guess we will to agree to disagree on this one.


And you are correct, never been a huge reptile fan although I did catch and keep an iguana for a day, and kept a few little lizzards for a few months. Know a little bit for work too, but that's about as far as I go

Fair enough, once again I'm saying in general I think most adult discus that are 5" are stunted to some degree, but as you say there are many other factors...Just wondering but are you sure your discus is actually 5", might be worth having a net and measuring out of water.
Be interested to see some pics too, always like to see top quality discus