Discus Journal...

Jim Curtis

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In the middle of July I purchased Two, 2 1/2" discus from my local LFS. They are Red Turq's. I did plenty of research and altho im not following the guidlines to growing out discus exactly, I am having (i feel) good success. Initially after purchasing I got myself worried that they were stunted based on hundreds of threads containing poor quality pictures and poor explinations of what really to look for in stunted discus. I'm still not 100% sure that they are not slightly stunted, but im 95% sure. After I started to see a bit of growth I got excited about them again and I ordered 3 more from a breeder online. I got those fish about 2 or 3 weeks ago, including 2 Marlboro Reds and a very small (maybe not quite 2") Blue Cobalt. I'm not exactly thrilled with one of the Red Marlboros I received as it is pretty badly peppered compared to the other, however it was significantly larger than advertised. Im doubting they are from the same batch. My camera is terrible with taking aquarium pics, it is afterall a camera phone, and im having a hard time taking photos that give a true representation of there size since its a bowfront, and its deep. I did'nt want to post this until they really matured but Im bored at the moment and took pictures already so here it goes..

This is a 55 Gallon tank, planted with DIY Co2, a small school of tetras and 2 cory cats. I feed at least 5 and up to 7 times a day until they look like they are bloated and ready to hurl, from a selection of Beef Heart, Tetra Bits, Bloodworms, and Ocean Nutrition frozen discus formula. I spend about an hour a day, everyday after work cleaning and doing water changes. My girlfriend thinks im totally mad but I think is begining to understand my compulsion. I really am driven to succeed in growing these things out and having them be nice and round. Right now, im still unsure im on the right track and I really am unsure as to the ages of the discus when I received them. But, the 2-1/2" Turqs I bought in mid July are now nearly 4", the shipment I received in August are keeping pace.

Im sorry that this post seems to be going all over the place but I just wanted to add that while I didnt go barebottom, (the only other tank I have is a small QT tank), beause I dont want to lose my plants. I did remove more than 50% of the substrate and in some areas the tank is bare bottom, the substrate is built up around the plants but is literally 1 stone deep elsewhere.

I only have one picture of the fish when I first got them, It's hard to judge the size of the fish, but you can see that they are taking on a better shape..

Oh, and as a side effect to all of this my tetras have grown freakishly large and look to be outgrowing there bodies so to speak.

Ok, the earliest pic I have, within the first few days of when acquired..
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Pics from tonight, Largest fish (earliest ones and heavy peppered red marlboro) are nearly 4" from end to end. Smaller Red Marlboro is about 3-1/4" and the smallest guy is not quite 3". The only true indication of there age is that fact that they are still far from having their adult coloration.
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Does eye size look ok? That is one aspect of all of this that im having a hard time getting a handle on..

Oh, and at what size can you expect them to really start to round out? If that makes sense..

I'm going to make a very strong effort to not be my overly defensive self, first clue is that im posting this publicly. I want all of you're criticism (about the fish, not my writing skills) comments and questions..


Thanks..
 
Ha, the last Sabres game I went to last year was against the Devils. Sabres won in a shootout.
 
Discus have good colors, but do seems to be some-what stunted. I found a good guide on how to correctly identify stunted fish but it is on another forum, so I cannot send you a link.


When talking about your big fish, I doubt he will change all that much in shape. :/ You should find that they grow at least another inch, maybe two. (again, talking the 4 inch fish) but probably not more then that. They will most likely stay the same shape. Don't fret. This probably isn't your fault. Could be due to the suppliers stunting the fish, or a weaker strain of fish to begin with.
 
Im fairly sure that none of those fish are more than 6 or so months old at most. Im surprised to hear you call them stunted.

Do these ones look stunted to you as well?

signaturelinepics003-1.jpg
 
last pic looks quite good, a little too much dorsal for my preference, but not bad

as a guide to proportion, if you "draw" a line from top to bottom through the eye, you should get 7-9 eyes into the line, less is probably stunted.

originals look stunted to me, but pics are poor so it can be hard to judge

As a guide to size vs age ( for all non spotted/snakeskin derivatives which tend to be a little slower in growth)
1" = 1 month
2"= 2 months
3"= 12-14 weeks
4"= 20-24 weeks
6"=30 weeks

When I was breeding seriously I always got 3" in 3 months on 85% of the juveniles. :drool:
 
Discus are so easy to stunt, it can be done in a couple of weeks, at that size though it is hard to judge if they are stunted as they get rounder with growth.I can't say for certain, but to me the ones in the 1st pics have quite big eyes...You'll have to wait and see how they turn out I guess.
 
Some stunted discus...3 died in 2 1/2 years (with no illness signs, just randomly died) and 2 have just died from lymphotysis, leaving only 1 left.
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Well thats fairly dissipointing to hear. I thought it was a full year of steady growth before most hit 6". I guess next time ill go bare bottom and get an auto feeder so I can spread out the feedings better. Maybe I'm not giving them enough of the food they like. I think im going to up the beefheart feedings for awhile, keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.. Id be happy to see them all get to 5". I think the red's may still have hope.
 
Well thats fairly dissipointing to hear. I thought it was a full year of steady growth before most hit 6". I guess next time ill go bare bottom and get an auto feeder so I can spread out the feedings better. Maybe I'm not giving them enough of the food they like. I think im going to up the beefheart feedings for awhile, keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.. Id be happy to see them all get to 5". I think the red's may still have hope.


You seems to be feeding them quite a bit. 7 feedings a day is too much. I am giving my juvys 3-4.


Beefheart really doesn't have much protien. A high protien diet is what you are looking for when growing out Juvys.
 
Well thats fairly dissipointing to hear. I thought it was a full year of steady growth before most hit 6". I guess next time ill go bare bottom and get an auto feeder so I can spread out the feedings better. Maybe I'm not giving them enough of the food they like. I think im going to up the beefheart feedings for awhile, keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.. Id be happy to see them all get to 5". I think the red's may still have hope.


You seems to be feeding them quite a bit. 7 feedings a day is too much. I am giving my juvys 3-4.


Beefheart really doesn't have much protien. A high protien diet is what you are looking for when growing out Juvys.
I thought beefheart was almost 98% protein. ?

Not to completely thread jack, but all the discussion i've been reading about discus has inspired me a bit.

Are these fish so hard to keep that they are commonly stunted? What does a stunted discus look like vs a discus that has not been stunted? I'm going googling, but if someone has a good link plz share.

sorry for going a bit off-topic Jim.
 
Wow. I totally dont know why I was feeding them that much. I really thought I read it somewhere but now going through all my info I'm seeing 3-5 times daily. Oh well, not like it matters. It looks like these guys may be a lost cause.
 
Well thats fairly dissipointing to hear. I thought it was a full year of steady growth before most hit 6". I guess next time ill go bare bottom and get an auto feeder so I can spread out the feedings better. Maybe I'm not giving them enough of the food they like. I think im going to up the beefheart feedings for awhile, keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.. Id be happy to see them all get to 5". I think the red's may still have hope.


You seems to be feeding them quite a bit. 7 feedings a day is too much. I am giving my juvys 3-4.


Beefheart really doesn't have much protien. A high protien diet is what you are looking for when growing out Juvys.
I thought beefheart was almost 98% protein. ?

Not to completely thread jack, but all the discussion i've been reading about discus has inspired me a bit.

Are these fish so hard to keep that they are commonly stunted? What does a stunted discus look like vs a discus that has not been stunted? I'm going googling, but if someone has a good link plz share.

sorry for going a bit off-topic Jim.


I dont mind at all. Its not really off topic. I guess they are hard to keep. I've been letting them run my life for the past 2 months and apperantly it wasnt good enough. I got my discus from a very reputable source. I wish I took photos when I first got them so I could see the growth in the eye. After comparing photos and looking at my fish closer I see that they are all horribly stunted. But it amazes me because they have grown altho not to the degree Mike stated that they should. I'm pretty sure beefheart is very high in protein. Its all meat afterall and thats what 95% of the people on the Discus forums feed and their discus grow great.

They eye thing is really tough on me though, because depending on what angle I look at my fish I can see the 7-1 ratio.

Heres a pic that I jacked from another forum. Hope the photographer dosent mind as its all in the interest of learning!
signaturelinepics003-1.jpg

This is a fully grown out discus..

I actually also jacked the photo from the second post from this guy as well for the sake of comparison. But this is supposidly a one year later photo of the Blue Turq's in the second pic..

RT2.jpg
 
Sorry, I only see one picture?

I always thought beef heart wasn't huge in crude protien. I looked at the back of my package of turkey heart, and it only says 8.5%


Jim, don't be discouraged. Perfect Discus are pretty rare, I believe one or two of my Discus are stunted. I am sure other experienced Discus keepers on this forum can say the same.
 

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