Designed By A 4 Year Old - 10 Gallon

Yes, hi there and welcome to TFF jmiller,

The AC20 is an excellent choice, better than the others you listed I suspect. We like the Aquaclears because the media box is just a simple rectangular open space allowing lots of flexibility with media. Custom choosing and use of media is much more common than beginners usually think with they come in. In your case though, the provided AC sponge with some type of ceramic on top (perhaps a jar of seachem matrix (though it would be way more quantity than you'd need for years on the little 10g) would be better than the plain lumps that AC give you) would be fine. Carbon is not needed (but is good to have on the storage shelf if you already have some.) I'm running an ancient AC20 (was originally called the AC "mini") on my Q-Tank and its not even excessively noisy even after all these years (though much noisier than the Eheim on the main tank of course.)

If you took your tap readings without dechlor then the 0.25ppm NH3 seen in the tap water would explain a bit of the reading in the tank, although I agree with you that most of it may be a poor filter in the sense of not enough biomedia volume (which is the usual problem with cheap filters!) If you had indeed put Prime into the tap water prior to the ammonia test then the 0.25ppm might just be the ammonia that separates if your tap water is treated with chloramines (you can usually find out if the local people use chloramines or chlorine with a phone call.)

In your new larger tank planning I'd consider carefully whether you really want the bowfront design. The glass combines with the water to create quite an effective lens, causing the fish to look larger or smaller than real life as they change distance from the viewer. It also makes the aquascape look shallower than real life, considerably shallower front to back than a plain old rectangular tank would. I'd always been attacted to the idea and jumped at the chance when I started my son's tank but have found it mildly disappointing, though not a big deal either way really. By the way, one of the pleasures of being grandfather age in my opinion is that one finally is comfortable taking ones time with the planning and it really pays off in this particular hobby.

Agree with above discussions of shoaling tetras. Amazing difference in the behaviors as you reach effective shoaling numbers, suggesting that it would be a true improvement to decide on re-homing/up-moving one of the species and enlarging the numbers of the other in the 10g. Oh, and I forgot, if it turns out there really is some ammonia in the tap then its quite effectively handled by realizing you just mentally adjust to slightly smaller but more frequent water changes as compared to suggestions people make. This lets it be more dilute at addition time but still has you changing an effective amount of water weekly, which is quite a basic tenet of good maintenance (among other things it rids the tank of hundreds of trace and organic things we don't have the time or money to test for and that would build to toxic level otherwise.)

~~waterdrop~~
 
I think I'm starting to warm to old school neon tank decoration (I never thought I'd hear myself saying that!). I guess it has retro/kitsch value.

Even though I let her pick everything out she is starting to get tired of it. All of the fish just seem to blend in.
 
The ammonia reading was almost at zero last night but not quite. Tonights reading is significantly closer to 0.25 ppm, lets call it 0.185ppm. So I'll do another 50% WC and gravel vac tomorrow.

Hey waterdrop thanks for the "mini novel", lots of good info and interesting points in there. I appreciate you taking the time. I plan on ordering the AC20 and an Azoo Palm filter (for a 5.5 gal Beta tank I just bought) from http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ sometime tomorrow. Since I've never had on of these before do I need to buy anything else to have on hand? The plan was to temporarily use the filter from the Aqua Tech 5-15 in the AC20 when I first make the switch to help everything along.

The above tap water reading was just straight from the tap, no treatments of any kind. I think I'll do a reading of the prepared water before I add it to the tank tomorrow. If I am indeed getting an ammonia reading straight from the tap would I just double up on the Prime or is there a formula of some kind to tell how much more to add?

I'm still giving the new tank a lot of thought and yes I have already decided against the bowfront. My LFS has a large bowfront that helped me make the decision against them. It's a great looking tank but the distortion is not to my liking. The front runner right now is the 38 gal with sand bottom, rock, driftwood and a few live plants stocked with the cory from the 10 (with added buddies), one of the tetras from the 10 and then something new. Maybe some black skirted teras because I really like them.

As far as the more frequent WC what would you suggest? 25% twice a week, 20% every third day?
 
Regarding your API test kit. There's no need to use both of the ph tests. Your ph is high. You are testing out of the low range test and it is not valid, if that makes sense. So just use the high ph test.

The tank is a complete eye-sore, LOL! Little girls! You gotta love 'em! Have fun with your fish and your granddaughter!
 
Regarding your API test kit. There's no need to use both of the ph tests. Your ph is high. You are testing out of the low range test and it is not valid, if that makes sense. So just use the high ph test.

The tank is a complete eye-sore, LOL! Little girls! You gotta love 'em! Have fun with your fish and your granddaughter!


Thanks for the tip on the ph test. I was thinking that was the case but I didn't want to assume and hadn't thought to search and found out for sure.

I have been staring at that tank for almost 6 months! It was starting to give me a headache everytime I looked at. Since it's in my bedroom that's a lot. I'm slowly but surely changing everything. Here is something I got today:

Picture407.jpg


I've got it soaking now. As soon as it's finished I'll also be changing the gravel to black and a new background. By the time I'm done the only thing original left will be the heater.

And just so you all don't think I've comepletely taken over my grand-daughter's fish here is her new Beta tank:

Picture416.jpg


Still deciding on the final decorations. Can you tell that purple is her favorite color? :lol:
 
Hi again jmiller,

If it turns out the tap water is only basically a trace of .25ppm or lower then its really not going to be much of a problem. Basically the way to think about it is that you've got this tap water that's showing a .25 but then you only fill some fraction of your tank, like 25%, so it should get even more dilute and then right away your bacteria are converting it, so its going down and is gone in fairly short time. What you want to do is run a few tests (this will all be later after fishless cycling is over and you have fish or have reached a stable tank situation) and get a feel for how much ammonia they are being exposed to and for how long and then there's no particular formula, you can just dream up some pattern you like. For instance, you might choose to change 25% twice a week instead of the more standard 50% weekly and therefor each time you added water, their exposure would be half what it would have been had you waited. It may still turn out to be so trace that it just won't matter.

Ah, the life of a successful road warrier :lol: , you would laugh, I'm raked out here lying on my back in the second row of seats in the family van with the seatback all the way down on the front passenger seat so I can put my knees up to hold the laptop, which is being charged by the car engine so I can sit here doing TFF off of a lucky internet connection thanks to some nice soul who thankfully leaves their access point open, giving me some fun while the kids do their hours of warmups in the pool prior to finals (swimmeets are endless!)
(presumably you are in your nice warm house with neon girl!) :lol:

~~waterdrop~~
 
Hey waterdrop my daughter was a cheerleader for a few years so I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately "neon girl" aka MacKenzie is with the other grandparents this weekend.

As far as the water readings go they are taken from a mature tank (6 months) with fish. Todays readings made no sense at all. I did three seperate readings, one straight from the tap, one from the bucket after Prime was added & finally one from the tank just before I did the water change.

Tap
HR PH 8.0
ammonia 0.25 / a little less than
nitrite 0
nitrate 5.0

Bucket w/Prime
8.0
0.25 / a little less than *this makes no sense*
0
10.0

Tank / before WC
8.0
0.25 / a little less than
0
10.0 / a little more than 10 but not quite 15

How come I'm still getting an ammonia reading after adding Prime? Shouldn't it take it down to zero? The reading was taken after the water had been treated and setting for about an hour. I'll start doing the twice a week WC and continue to do testing and hopefully fiqure this out.

Here was today's activities:

Temporary home:
Picture420.jpg


Finally finished:
Picture424.jpg


I finally got around to changing out the garvel and the background. I think it makes all the difference in the world. One more thing to put in and as soon as it finishes soaking it will be complete.

This was after the first 24 hours.

Picture419.jpg


It's not near as bad as I thought it would be.

It was a toss up between the black gravel and sand but I decided to do the sand on the larger tank later on. I was planning on the black background but the wife suggested the blue. I'm about 95% sure that the next one will be the 38 gallon. I have been eyeballing that 65 everytime I go to the LFS but at this point I believe the 38 would be a better choice. I can always get the 65 (or bigger) after I retire and have more time to devote to it. Now all I have to do is start planning.
 
Hi John,

You're embarrassing me. As long as I've been here and I still haven't found the little cable to get a picture out of my phone and onto a computer and you're already posting away at pictures! And they add a lot, makes it fun!

Well, I can explain about the ammonia and prime. Like most "conditioners," Prime separates the ammonia and chlorine that make up "chloramine" and then neutralizes the chlorine, or if the water is treated with chlorine instead of chloramine, it just neutralizes the chlorine. Prime also, like a -subset- of conditioners, converts the ammonia (NH3) into the much less toxic ammonium (NH4+) so that, for about 24 hours or so, ammonia toxicity in the aquarium is greatly reduced. Ammonia and ammonium together make up "total ammonia nitrogen" and this is what the ammonia test in the API kit measures. The kit can't tell the difference between ammonia and ammonium. In practice though this is just another aspect of testing kits that one eventually realizes doesn't matter much because of the normal way we use the tool. (It took me a long time to realize that one has to develop a skill level with water chemistry and then just use certain aspects of kit results to help steer those informed suspicions in the right direction, as opposed to thinking the kit will magically tell all.) By the way, the "quality" of the ammonia to ammonium conversion is extremely high with Prime, if reports are correct, and that, along with its high concentration is what gives it such a high reputation.

Now as to why you just seem to be seeing your "below 0.25 trace of ammonia" all the time, I don't know... One thing we've run into a couple of times is when the test is being judged using a compact fluorescent light, which can lend a slight greenish cast to a yellow result. The testing source light should be rather bright incandescent, not any manner of fluorescent. Sunlight can also be ok but its brightness and character can vary more than a simple point source incandescent that's hooded and between you and the card/tube you are holding.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Hey waterdrop thanks for the lesson that really helps me understand better. I've looked at the results under fluorescent and incandescent, but haven't tried sunlight yet, and I've also had the wife look. It is showing just the lightest of green tint not a true yellow. As long as I continue to have healthy fish I'll just live with the slight green tint on the test.

You really need to work on getting those pics figured out. All of these were taken with a Nikon 775 digital camera I bought for $25 off E-bay. I'm also restoring a '62 VW Beetle (mine) and a '68 VW Karmann Ghia (the wife's) and needed a camera that I could take out in the garage and not be to upset if I destroyed it. It fits the bill perfectly, small, easy to use and cheap.

Thanks again.
 
Tonight's readings:
HR PH 8.0
ammonia 0.25 / a little less than
nitrite 0+ / color was just a touch darker
nitrate 10.0

Then did a 25% WC. I'll be taking waterdrop's advice and switching to a twice a week schedule. For now it looks like Tuesday/Saturday. Changed water in bucket that driftwood is soaking in. It still has a way to go before I can use it. "Neon girl" got to see her new Beta tank tonight. She was impressed and happy I was taking such good care of her fish.
 
Wow, you've got a betta tank now as well?

You seem to be steaming ahead with your ex-neon tank. Waterdrop is being fantastic!

Are you planning to fishless cycle the betta tank? Might be a good challenge and no doubt it'll help cement all the stuff you're learning about test kits and the subtleties of the nitrogen cycle and water conditioners, lol.

Hope on over to the betta section for loads of awesome betta related advice and suggestions :lol:
 
Wow, you've got a betta tank now as well?

You seem to be steaming ahead with your ex-neon tank. Waterdrop is being fantastic!

Are you planning to fishless cycle the betta tank? Might be a good challenge and no doubt it'll help cement all the stuff you're learning about test kits and the subtleties of the nitrogen cycle and water conditioners, lol.

Hope on over to the betta section for loads of awesome betta related advice and suggestions :lol:



Here is the pic that was posted on the previous page. It sits right beside the 10 gal.

Picture416.jpg


Already had the fish, so another trying to make up for bad advice situation. It was moved from a 1 1/2 gal tank to a 5 1/2, now heated and a filter on the way. Right now it's daily water testing and WC'ing when needed.

Tonight's readings:
HR PH 8.0
ammonia 0.25 / a little less than
nitrite 0
nitrate 10.0+

It also got a 25% WC and gravel vac tonight.

Also still planning the 38 gal purchase but secretly trying to figure out how to fit a 55. :shifty:
 
re the 38 vs the 55, I would comment that you should have a think about ratios. Tank height and the front to back depth can make for very different feeling tanks, both for the fish and for you as the viewer. In the USA the 55s are typically very tall and shallow and I find I don't like that in some ways, but it just depends.. a lot of 38 and 40g shapes are pretty nice ratios..
 
The two that I'm looking at are 38 = 36L X 12D X 19H and 55 = 48L X 12D X 22H.
 
Oh, well then the 38 is also too shallow and too tall for my taste, just like the 55. Mind you, that might be just a personal taste thing and you may also have serious space limitations to worry about (as nearly all of us do!) that I wouldn't be able to picture. I find that even 17" of water height can be irritating in terms of getting ones short sleeves wet and it being a bit hard working at the substrate level doing maintenance odds and ends. 19 is just going to be a bit worse and 22 might render you dependent on using extension devices which slows everything down terribly! But the more aesthetic thing is the depth. I'm not saying a tall shallow tank can't be stunning. It can, especially with angelfish etc. and I've seen some I really like a lot. Its just that I also feel there is some aspect of the essence of the personal pleasure of the hobby, especially if the tank is in one's own bedroom perhaps where its seen for more extended periods, where having more "depth" to stare in to adds, well, a more 3 dimensional aspect to the viewing pleasure.. there really are more mysterious places back there among the rocks, wood and especially, plants, where the fish seem to be coming from and going to and this provides one of the grand essentials known to landscape architects, which is that we humans have a natural interest when looking into the "margins" that immitate where the fields meet the forest so to speak. (apologies for the run-on sentences..) (not to mention shorter tanks have more surface area and allow higher stocking..)

~~waterdrop~~
 

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