Dang My Tap Water!

[Rynofasho]

I know most of you (or so it seems) are UK based, but does anyone have the same problem as me where your tap water is ridiculously acidic / alkaline? I have a monsterously dense piece of bogwood in my tank so the pH comes down rather quickly and settles around 7.6 - 7.8, but my tap water is at the very least 8.8 out of the tap.

I have a 36 gallon tank and I do changes with 5 gallon buckets - I can't change more than 10 gallons without having a very noticeable affect on my fish. I'm trying to bring my nitrites down (mid cycle) and I've only done a 15 gallon change one other time. When I did it, one or two fish seemed to be shocked initially but they came through. I did another 15 gallon change today, hoping that perhaps it was something else that time, and again, I had two fish that started hanging at the surface and their bodies sagged and looked limp. It is so frustrating that I can't do a big change without really affecting them.

I plan on getting 10 gallons of bottled water (and testing the pH first - I'm sure it'll be nearer to 7) and then changing 15 gallons with 10 of bottled and 5 of tap to see if it has the same affect.

I know I will only really have to do monster changes like this when I'm cycling, but still, it is disheartening to see them obviously harmed by a big water change

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

If you are confident in the tank and tap readings with a liquid test kit, perhaps the way forward is to remove the bogwood until the tank is cycled? Once cycled, you will normally not need to do large water changes, so the fish should be fine then.

 

[Rynofasho]

I am confident in the readings, yes, however if I leave the bogwood out, there is nothing to bring my pH down so it will just stay in the high 8s and I dont have a good setup to keep cichlids

I think the answer for now is just 25% changes twice a day or using bottled water as I'm sure the pH HAS to be lower than out of my tap.

 

[I Keep Fish]

I am confident in the readings, yes, however if I leave the bogwood out, there is nothing to bring my pH down so it will just stay in the high 8s and I dont have a good setup to keep cichlids

I think the answer for now is just 25% changes twice a day or using bottled water as I'm sure the pH HAS to be lower than out of my tap.

what cichlids are you keeping, you cant set your tank up for "cichlids" they are found in PH's from 5-8,

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I am confident in the readings, yes, however if I leave the bogwood out, there is nothing to bring my pH down so it will just stay in the high 8s and I dont have a good setup to keep cichlids

I think the answer for now is just 25% changes twice a day or using bottled water as I'm sure the pH HAS to be lower than out of my tap.

There is no point keeping the water pH stable if your fish are going to die from ammonia or nitrite poisoning while "fish in cycling." If either toxin reaches 0.25mg/l, you need to be doing an immediate >75% water change, diluting the toxins by at least three. There could be rotting food on the tank floor and/or the filter sponges, adding to the problem, vacuuming the floor and gently rinsing the filter sponges in removed tank water can help this issue. Be wary of overfeeding, especially in an uncycled tank, as greedy fish will exrete lots of ammonia. About the size of one eye per fish per day is ample.

Most but not all fish are more than capable of living happy lives in tank water of pH 8, as many species are captive bred in much different water to that they are found in the wild, but there are some exceptions to this (eg. Neon Tetras; German Blue Rams). The chances are that the fish were in local tap water if you bought them from a local fish store.

If there is nothing else in the tank that could be dropping the pH such as a carbon dioxide bubbler for "high tech" plants, the chances are that the bogwood is releasing tannins that soften the water and drop the pH. However, a 0.4 drop on the pH scale is rather dramatic for bogwood, unless you have soft water to begin with.

Are you able to tests for gH and kH from your test kit?

 

[Rynofasho]

Sorry I guess what I said could be taken multiple ways --- I have no cichlids, I was just saying the tank I setup isn't optimal to care for them and only 36 gallons.

I have strips that can test for gh and kh however I know they are notoriously unreliable. gh measured either 75 or 150 and kh looked about 80. I know our water is pretty hard though, as evidenced by how hard I have to scrub the shower glass to get the white marks off.

I measured the tank pH again and sure enough it is 7.8, maybe a shade lower, and I promise it is really high out of the tap. I can take pictures if you'd like, but I'm confident that I am testing it right.

I actually added an air bubbler (not CO2) a day ago and in doing so, pulled most everything out of the tank and vac'd the heck out of it. I vacuum portions of the gravel with every change, however I know we are a bit guilty of overfeeding- the big vac should have helped out with the extra stuff in there though. I also cleaned all the filter media too so I'm doing all that I can to keep it clean.

Not really sure what else to say about it. I bought a 4 gallon jug of water and I'm going to test the pH and if it is anywhere in the 7s I'm going to do another 40% change and use the jug for part of it and see how the fish react. Promise though, 40% changes with all tapwater seem to really affect them

 

[Rynofasho]

It might end up being a non issue -- just tested the water before I did a partial change and ammonia was 0 and nitrites were almost 0 as well. Most promising result I have had so far!

Hoping I will be cycled in the next few days and then maybe get a few more fish before Christmas!

Cheers for the help!

 

[moochy13]

i live in norfolk, and my tap water comes out at 7.8. despite the fact ive got 3 decent bits of wood and sand substrate, my tank water is the same though.

 

[Bignose]

There is no point keeping the water pH stable if your fish are going to die from ammonia or nitrite poisoning while "fish in cycling." If either toxin reaches 0.25mg/l, you need to be doing an immediate >75% water change, diluting the toxins by at least three.

You can't just cite a single figure, like 0.25ppm, without taking into consideration what the pH is, and the temperature. The amount of toxic ammonia is very highly dependent on pH, and weakly dependent on temperature.

see http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/154313-of-toxic-ammonia-charts/


To the OP: as for setting up a tank for cichlids, look at the African Rift lake cichlids. The Rift Lakes have pHs in the 8s, and those fish would thrive in your tap water.

 

[Rynofasho]

Ya we got the setup prior to me knowing a single thing about fishkeeping. My wife took me to a petshop and ambushed me! We ended up settling on community fish and I already have 5 danios and the decor is more set up for fish other than cichlids.

HOWEVER, considering how much I enjoy it, I wouldn't be surprised if I mysteriously came home with a 75 gallon tank in the future