Cycling Aquarium

[littlest]

I've admitted I worded my post poorly and I've admitted that in the majority of cases it would be unnecessary to add ammonia. I'm not trying to be picky. You asked why the hell you would add ammonia when cloning a tank, I gave examples of why you would.
to be honest the reason I mentioned ammonia in the first place was both the examples I gave (betta and goldfish) and examples of the times I cloned tanks. Obviously it's different when you are dealing with a community set-up. I guess I didn't think it through thoroughly before I posted, for which I apologise.
I'm honesty not trying to argue, only trying to clarify what I meant.

We are actually in agreement on one point : that it is unnecessary to go through the whole fish-in cycling process when you have mature media to hand. That's more important than whether or not you should add ammonia for a day or two or not.

As for me saying you "need" to add ammonia, I actually claryfied that you don't "need" to as soon as you pointed out my error

Yeah you don't have to

please don't accuse me of trying to pick a fight. I admitted my mistakes and explained why I said what I did, that's all.

As for it being in the "new to hobby" section, it was in tropical discussion earlier but got moved.

 

[angel-al]

If you put a mature filter in a tank, but didnt cycle it, then added the full capacity of fish in one go, are you saying there would be no ammonia and nitrite along the way? Would there be enough bacteria despite new gravel and all new water?

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

Actually you said

If you have established tanks already there is really no need to do a fish-in cycle. You've got plenty of mature media to hand, so just put some mature media in the new filter for the new tank, add some ammonia, check the levels for a few days, and you should be done pretty quick. I cycled a new tank in less than a week with mature media - that's hardly a long time to wait before adding fish. If you have enough mature media available (I only had a little spare) the cycling is pretty much instant.

clearly saying you need ammonia with mature media and then...

Yeah you don't have to, it depends whether you want to stock fully straight away and depends on how much media you have available. I didn't have much mature media available so I added the ammonia to boost the bacteria numbers before adding fish.
personally I would always add a little ammonia just to check that things are working. it doesn't harm anything to do this.
also you might not have the fish straight away to add to the tank after setting it up, in which case you would need to add ammonia to provide a food source for the bacteria.

Its OK you said something that wasn't right and in the interests of any newbies reading this thread I corrected what you said. Chill out you don't need to have the last word. These forums are a great place for people to learn where they find out a lot more than they would from LFS or some of the less than good books out there. Its not about egos and twisting what you say so as not to appear wrong its about getting help ,giving good advice to others and trying to let our experiences in this hobby help people to not make the mistakes we've made before.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

If you put a mature filter in a tank, but didnt cycle it, then added the full capacity of fish in one go, are you saying there would be no ammonia and nitrite along the way? Would there be enough bacteria despite new gravel and all new water?

Yes, but best to go a bit under to be prudent. The gravel has some bacteria but the water has little to make any difference.

 

[westpoison]

I don't understand this this logic when you are exposing your fish to toxic levels of ammonia. blink.gif It will most likely take a longer amount of time to cycle with fish because of the necessary water changes but that is the responsibility you take on when cycling with fish.

Yes i am responsible for the fish, thats why i am doing a once a week water change. whereas people are saying that i should have water changes everyday!
A Too frequent water changes definitely going to hurt the fish more than if the fish going to stay in a fish tank with little ammonia for a week. By doing once a week water changes, you can be responsible to the fish, as well as ensure the bacteria grow fast.

 

[westpoison]

If you put a mature filter in a tank, but didnt cycle it, then added the full capacity of fish in one go, are you saying there would be no ammonia and nitrite along the way? Would there be enough bacteria despite new gravel and all new water?

Depends on how much bacteria media you put inside the new aquarium. Lets say the old tank is holding 20 small fishes, if you now transfer the filter from this mature tank into a new tank, the capacity the new tank can hold will be less than 20 small fishes unless you transfer all its bacteria colonies over which includes all the gravels and plants. If i am doing this, i will slowly introduce fishes into the new tank.

 

[Gazoo]

Unless I've missed something here - I think I'm in a Superman Bizzaro World.

 

[aquila]

Yes i am responsible for the fish, thats why i am doing a once a week water change. whereas people are saying that i should have water changes everyday!
A Too frequent water changes definitely going to hurt the fish more than if the fish going to stay in a fish tank with little ammonia for a week. By doing once a week water changes, you can be responsible to the fish, as well as ensure the bacteria grow fast.

By exposing the fish to high levels of ammonia you are not being a responsible fish keeper.

By water changing every day you limit the exposure of the fish to potentially toxic ammonia whilst still leaving enough present in the tank to cycle it effectively.

Even better, do a fishless cycle with bottled ammonia and there's no risk to fish health and you don't have to do so many water changes.

Jeez, what's with all the arguments and misinformation on the forums recently? There are already a number of excellent pinned topics with regards to this subject.

 

[waterdrop]

I'm with you aquila, couldn't make sense of this thread..

 

[rabbut]

Yes i am responsible for the fish, thats why i am doing a once a week water change. whereas people are saying that i should have water changes everyday!

Ok, I have done both fishless and fish-in cycling, and don't realy like either. However, I don't like the fact that fish-in cycling intentionaly exposes fish to ammonia and nitrite, both of which are serious to the long-tearm helth of my fish. This is the reason that I will always colne or fishless cycle future tanks.

Any reading of ammonia over a prolonged period of time will damage the fishes ability to breath correctly, and also weaken the immune system, making them suseptible to disease. This can and usualy will shorten the lives of your fish.

Readings of ammonia past 0.25mg/l is dangerous long-tearm. It will make fish suseptible to disease and perminantly damage the fishes gills. This will at beast shorten the lives of the fish, at worst, end their lives Past 4mg/l death is iminant. With a fish-in cycle, ammonia will easily reach or exceed the 4mg/l mark, when no waterchanges are done.

Daily waterchanges are the only way to keep your fish from lasting health issues. Waterchanges dilute the ammonia. This does not lengthen the cycle. If you had bothered to read bignose's report earlier mentioned you would understand why this is so. I won't go into the in's and out's when bignose has done it for me.

A Too frequent water changes definitely going to hurt the fish more than if the fish going to stay in a fish tank with little ammonia for a week. By doing once a week water changes, you can be responsible to the fish, as well as ensure the bacteria grow fast.

I have explained why regular waterchanges don't hurt the fish, so please read, take time to absorb and think about my coments, then re-consider where you stand. If you still belive the waterchanges in a cycling tank are damaging, please re-post explaining why, and I'll also absorb and think over your comments. Once doing this I will also re-post, and we can work through the resoning behind eachothers thoughts, untill we hae cleared the issue

johnny.t., I am with littleest on the add ammonia after adding your mature media, for safetys sake. The majority of problems with filter cloning occur when something happens to the mature colony when moving it. I have had it happen to me, and it will leave you with a tank that required fish-in cycling....not good

All the best to all
Rabbut