Cycling Advice Needed (Pls Help)

[chris30uk]

hi all im trying to cycle my new 370litre tank without fish, until i found this site i had never cycled a tank. iv read a thread started by rdd1952 giving advice which was fairly easy to understad but im in the uk and and ammonia isnt easily available here but will try boots and homebase tomorrow. i put some biomature in last night and tested today but either biomature has no ammonia in it or my test kit isnt working as there was no colour change. i got the test kit with my used setup on ebay, the kit is a freshwater master kit (test tube type). to my undrstanding you need ammonia to do a fishless cycle and i even tested biomature and water 20%/80% water mix in the tube and still no colour change? biomature tells you to check nitrites but that hasnt changed colour either. do you think this kit is usless? i got some mature filter media i.e gravel in stockings from an under gravel type pump and some black gunge from a mature sponge filter and added it to my external filter trays to speed it up. temps in the late 80's ect. but with this kit its showing no signs off ammonia or nitrites today 24hours after adding biomature. any advice much apriciated.


Day 2 - Ammonia 4 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - pH 7 (temp at 30 celsius)

Day 3 - Ammonia 2 - Nitrite 0.50 - Nitrate 3 - pH ?

Day 4 - Ammonia 1.5 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 1 - pH 7

Day 5 - Ammonia 0.25 - Nitrite 2 - Nitrate 1 - pH 7

Day 6 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0.25 - Nitrate 0 - pH 7 (dosed Ammonia 5ppm)

Day 7 - Ammonia 1.5 - Nitrite 1.5 - Nitrate 20 - pH 7

Day 8 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 40 - pH ? (dosed Ammonia 4ppm)

Day 9 - Ammonia 0.25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 40/80 - pH 6 (pH crash/ bicarb of soda)

Day 10 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate ? - pH 8 (pH normal again)

Day 11 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 100 - pH 8 (temp now at 29 celsius)
(redosed 3.5 - 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 12 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3-4 - Nitrate 100 - pH 8 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 13 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 5 - Nitrate 100-130 - pH 8 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 14 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 5 (maybe more) - Nitrate? - pH 8 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 15 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 5 (maybe more) - Nitrate? - pH 8 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 16 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite ? - Nitrate? - pH ? (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 17 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 2-3 - Nitrate 15-20 - pH 7.6 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 18 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 2-3 - Nitrate? - pH 7.4 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 19 - Ammonia 0 (in 12 hours or less) - Nitrite 2-3 - Nitrate? - pH 8.4 (redosed 4ppm Ammonia)

Day 20 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 2-3 - Nitrate 100-140 - pH 7.6 (redosed 3ppm Ammonia)

 

[chris30uk]

ok its official, im thick. for the ammonia test i needed to use bottle 1 then bottle 2 to test. so on the second day my water test after its second batch of biomature 24 hours apart are this:
ammonia - 4
nitrite - 0
ph - 7.0 roughly

any advise or help would be great. as im using mature media in my filter, how long would be an average time scale? Another question that made me wonder was this: when my filter finally matures, when it gets dirty then if i clean it i.e big sponge at the bottom/ceramic rings etc. wont this wipe out a lot of my bacteria if not all? i used to own two internal fluval 4 filters in my old 3ft tank and obviously i didn't understand needing bacteria and i used to rinse the sponge under the tap and squeeze and squeeze till totally muck free and clean. would love the answer to that question please

 

[OldMan47]

If I am correct, biomature is simply an expensive ammonia source. It will take just as long as any other cycle, often around 6 weeks give or take a bit. If you can find actual mature media, as some of the members here have volunteered to help with, you can cut the time to about a week. For the list of potential donors listed by location try the link in my signature area.

 

[chris30uk]

hi i did get some mature media i.e two bags of gravel from two different mature underwater gravel tanks then put the gravel into my mrs old tights. my filter has 3 trays for media so i put the first bag at he bottom under the sponge filter were the water first comes in. then my middle tray has ceramic rings so i put the second bag of gravel in that tray and the rings on top. i have also soaked my sponge and rings in the black soup that was strained from a mature sponge filter. so are you saying i could have a mature cycled tank in only one week? i was wondering when my filter does mature and i take out the stockings of gravel, will it go into a mini cycle again as my filter would have lost two biggish matured bags of media? also has anyone heard of these (RENA BIO CHEM STARS) they are saying they are 33 times more effective as ceramic rings?

 

[OldMan47]

It should be no problem removing the starter culture once the filter has cycled. Have you located any ammonia yet that is marked as ammonia?

 

[chris30uk]

I wasnt able to get to homebase or boots today as iv been busy finishing my new bathroom so if i get hour or two to myself tomorow i will try and find some but if need be ebay sells it but obviously you take your chances on there as you cant check if it foams when you shake it. going to test water later

 

[OldMan47]

A small amount of ammonia that you would need should cost less than 1 GBP. That makes the shipping costs for an e-bay purchase prohibitive.

 

[chris30uk]

ok i did my test this evening results are:

DAY 3

ammonia - 2
nitrite - 0.50
nitrate - 3

now im confused here is the method rdd1952 says is get the ammonia level to 4-5 ppm then when it drops to 0 you then add another 4-5 ppm of ammonia. Keep doing this until your bacteria can process it in 10-12 hours. Biomature tells you to do it different? Biomature says add the dose stated on the bottle once each day until you get a nitrite reading of 10ppm then just wait until the nitrate reading reaches 0, then start adding a few hardy fish. tonight i didn't add any biomature as the article rdd1952 wrote seemed the method everyone on this forum is using and as biomature is just ammonia i thought why add more until it has dropped to 0? also if i add biomature every day to raise my nitrites then surly my ammonia levels will go above 5ppm slowing down the process a lot. any advice is much appreciated

 

[OldMan47]

Add daily is an old method that we no longer advocate here. The problem is simple to state. When you add ammonia daily you end up with concentrations in excess of 5 ppm. At about 8 ppm the dominant bacteria responsible for moving ammonia forward to nitrites are not ones that can survive at the low concentrations of a mature tank. When the ammonia levels drop down to levels that your fish actually produce, those bacteria cannot thrive and it takes a while for the other bacteria to grow to replace them. In the meantime, while the change is happening, the ammonia levels in the tank can again spike on you. What we advocate is the add and wait approach or even a variation that WD and I work with where you use lower concentrations of ammonia at first and then build up to 5 ppm toward the end. It means focusing on the right type of bacteria from the beginning and never really giving the 8 ppm plus bacteria a chance to take over the colony. Although it may be slightly slower to develop the maximum bacterial colony, it will be one that is stable after you add your fish, a feature that I find worthwhile.

 

[chris30uk]

hi i got some ammonia today from homebase, i dont know if its sutable but here are two pics and two quick vids on youtube to be sure.

vid 1
vid 2


please let me know if this will work.

thanks
Chris

 

[OldMan47]

That looks like the right stuff to me.

 

[chris30uk]

any one? i hope this is the rite ammonia, i.e no soap

thanks
chris

 

[chris30uk]

lol i looked and had no reply's, as soon as i had asked again, you had already answered it for me. i do appreciate your time Oldman47, thank you.
Chris

 

[chris30uk]

ok tonights tests are as follows:

ammonia 1 - 1.5

nitrite 1

nitrate 0 - 1

ph 7 - 7.2


so the ammonia has hardly dropped at all in 24 hours, the nitrite is just begining to show and nitrate is just slightly changing colourand no real change in ph. these test kits are quite hard to get the light rite to see its true colour though so i hope im readingit properly. oh nearly forgot, i added a eheim 400 air pump that i got with the tank as iv read that oxygen helps the bacteria along so i'll hope and wait. since i seeded the tank i do hope it starts to improve in the next few days.

Chris

 

[OldMan47]

Going from 4 / 0 to 1.5 / 1 is quite a bit of progress in my book. It often takes 2 weeks for the ammonia to move that far.