Cycle?

fredgarvin

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Have been away from the hobby for better than 10 years. I have probaby started 50 tanks and NEVER once did I have a problem. I knew I was starting the bacteria going and would help it from my existing tanks, but I didn't treat it like a NASA project. Now,everybody's all worked up about cycling. "Why is the cycle taking so long?" "My ammonia readings are thru the roof.!" And what's all this I here about "night rates"? Rule of thumb was fill tank. wait 2 weeks until water cleared. Add plants. Let water clear. Add 2 hardy fish. If no problems add fish slowly until you run out of room. Meaning don't just figure on today's fish size. Plan on growth. Rarely if ever did I lose a fish and I NEVER had a single set-up problem. Has there been some big change in filters? Some startling new scientific discoveries? Otherwise, keep Igor and his test tubes away from my tanks! Really, despite my curmudgeonly remarks has there been some big new scientific breakthru, or did the pH tester folks figure a new profit enhancement program? (PEP) Thanx in advance. I promise not to tell ya stories about how we used to eat roots and berries, walk to school uphill both ways, and live in abandoned barrels to "toughen us up." Really. No foolin'.
 
A better understanding of what a cycle is has been 'discovered' I suppose.Google the 'nitrogen cycle' and it should give you a good understanding.
 
Hi
To be fair on Fred, I know what he means. I have had a break of about 15 years from keeping fish and i too wondered what the heck everyone was on about??? :huh:
I think the main difference now is this, what we're on, the internet. 15-20 years ago these forums and alike didn't exsist so you went by what the lfs told you, or by what you'd heard.
I too had a few tanks back then from oscars to communities and marines, but i didn't really have any major problems.

These days everyone can share the knowledge to make fishes lives better :good:
 
First, hello and welcome to the forum. :hi:

There really haven't been any major scientific breakthroughs that have changed the hobby but there have been changes. Before the mid 90s, few people, if any, had ever heard of fishless cycling. As mentioned, people set up tank and introduced fish slowly until the tank was full. But the biggest difference between then and now (at least in my opinion) is that not a lot of people were in the hobby. We didn't have the major chains like Petsmart, Walmart, Petco, etc. selling fish so that they were so readily available to anyone and everyone. So the people that had tanks just cloned one to start another and thus, no cycling needed. In thinking back (I'm 55), I really can't remember ever seeing aquariums very often when I was a kid and almost no place sold fish (trying to remember what store it was that I loved to go in because they had fish for sale). Before say 1980 or so, I wonder how many people tried keeping fish but gave up because they bought too many to start with, didn't know what to do when problems arose and just got frustrated and got out of it as fast as they got in. They certainly didn't have the internet to turn to for answers.

You did mention 2 things though that make a huge difference in not having problems though: plants and helping the bacteria from an existing tank. I already mentioned cloning a tank and that basically eliminates any cycling. If you take half the filter media from a 50 gallon tank and start another 50 gallon tank, you could fully stock it immediately too. The bacteria in each tank would double in a day or so and both would be fully cycled. And plants can use the ammonia in its original form so you could probably fully stock a heavily planted tank and not really have much, if any, problem with ammonia at all as the plants will take care of it.

There are a several reason fishless cycling has become popular. First, it prevents subjecting fish to toxins that, even if they don't kill them, can still cause damage that shortens their lives. As a society, we are less tolerant of animal cruelty (and some people would argue that "it's just a fish") so most of us in the hobby want to be a humane as possible. Second, it prevents you from having to buy hardy fish like danios or goldfish, fish that you really aren't interested in keeping, just to cycle. You are left having to "dispose" of those fish in the end. Third, it allows you to stock your tank fully as soon as it's cycled. No more adding 2 fish, waiting a week or 2 and adding 2 more, etc.

Fishkeeping is more popular today that ever before. We can thank the chain stores for that. While we curse them for having terrible conditions in their tanks and giving bad advice, they have exposed more people to fishkeeping. On a regular basis, all of us are in stores that sell fish but are not "fish stores". Unfortunately, too many people buy them as an impulse buy and there is where the problems start. They buy a 10 gallon tank and the "fill in the blank" pet store employee sells them 3 goldfish, an angel fish, 6 neon tetras and a pleco to start with. And a week later their fish are covered in white spot and dying and they wonder what went wrong. So last but not least, the best reason, in my opinion, for a fishless cycle is to allow beginners to get into the hobby with the least amount of loss and work. It's a whole lot easier to test ammonia and nitrite for 3 or 4 weeks than to do water changes every day.

So don't some in here trying to tell us how to cycle a tank. :grr:

Only kidding. :lol: Once again, welcome, and enjoy the forum.
 
Awww, I remember when all this was fields :rolleyes:
 
I remember when you used to be able to buy fish at the local Woolworth's.



They were a nickel.
 
I would say it is alot fish friendly to start with. You probably would loose less fish doing a fishless cycle making the world a better place for fish keepers. If your new into tropical fish like myself, it is good to no about different chemicals you can add to your tank and how the cycle works.

I remember back in biology lessons 8 years ago I did do the Nitrogen Cycle, which is friendly for fish from one place to another.
 
Hi Fred and welcome to TFF,

I read your posting a couple times and finally realized what was a little complicated about it:

"Rule of thumb was fill tank. wait 2 weeks until water cleared. Add plants. Let water clear. Add 2 hardy fish. If no problems add fish slowly until you run out of room. Meaning don't just figure on today's fish size. Plan on growth. Rarely if ever did I lose a fish and I NEVER had a single set-up problem. "

I think you maybe had a better "rule of thumb" than many back then and were possibly more careful than most. It would have been pretty patient to wait two weeks (presumably with filters running) before plants, then wait more with plants, add only a couple zebras etc. No wonder you had pretty good success. "If no problems" perhaps means the occasional loss of a fish or at least you'd heard that might happen.

I too have returned to the hobby, used to have a bunch of tanks back in the 1960's. I too had pretty much success and certainly read a lot of book articles about "letting water age". "Old water" was a big thing back then. In all honesty though I remember losing fish and not knowing why. Now, looking back, I'm pretty sure there were times of "cleaning out that filter and replacing everything with nice fresh media" and boy did I think I was doing a great thing! Now I know I was killing my bio-filter.

Personally I just think its a lot more fun and interesting understanding the process better, discussing it more, having even healthier fish and generally filling in more details. Knowing the water chemistry better and the practical fundamentals to work with it is a really nice tool for handling all sorts of situations that arise with a tank.

If anything, I agree with you that aquariums are really more forgiving of mistakes than the forum can make it sound. The very process of a forum has a natural bias in that problems and answers are discussed up front, whereas things that are quietly working ok are less discussed. Anyway, if you end up staying, I've taken a look at other forums and many places on the web and find this one, TFF, to be particularly active and engaging, so I hope you may find that too.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. bronzecat, nice to know you are another "returned to the hobby" person!
 
I remember when you used to be able to buy fish at the local Woolworth's.
Woolworth's Five & Dime. That's the store I was trying to think of. The only one near us was in Charlotte and we only went there once or twice a year. It was like Christmas to me to see all the fish.

If anything, I agree with you that aquariums are really more forgiving of mistakes than the forum can make it sound.
The simple truth is that if you keep the water parameters where they should be and do regular water changes, things will almost always go very well even from the start. I think almost all problems that are encountered by beginners are related to water quality. Once a tank is cycled and established, the need for testing is almost gone unless you notice something strange in the tank. I haven't tested my 75 gallon for anything other than pH in probably 2 years. And the pH test was only because I was trying to answer a question on this forum. I am hoping to add some new fish soon ans will test again after adding them just to make sure I don't have nay issues. With the tank being planted and almost 3 years old, I certainly wouldn't even expect a mini cycle but I'll test just for peace of mind.
 
Took almost all the words from my mouth, rdd. I get a lot of admiring comments when people visit my home, usually along the lines of ''that must take a hell of a lot of work to keep it looking that clean''. They don't believe me when I tell them it takes an hour every ten days to keep everything healthy. Regular maintenance is the key for me; get it right at the start and you should be fine. I think if things start to go wrong, there's very little that extra water changes wouldn't put right. I think, too, that when people say they used to do it a certain way years ago that many were fish were much hardier then; so many seem to have been bred to the point of not being worth buying.
A couple of months ago, I added some fabulously coloured Sunset Platys. It's no exaggeration to say I hadn't seen any decent ones in at least 18 months, but these were absolutely stunningly healthy. I've had people at work (who see me reading my fish mags) set up a tank and the first thing I tell them is ''get used to the idea that you're keeping water, not fish''. Admittedly, I can supply them with a bit of filter media so they have a much better start than just throwing fish in to an uncycled tank. It's as easy or hard as you want to make it.
 
the first thing I tell them is ''get used to the idea that you're keeping water, not fish''.
I've never heard it stated that way but it's true. If the water parameters are kept where they should be, the fish should be fine barring the introduction of a disease or parasite from an outside source such as new fish that weren't quarantined.
 
I remember when you used to be able to buy fish at the local Woolworth's.



They were a nickel.
I used to sell all my fry to woolworths thats when mom and pops owned them shhh I think Iam getting old. When I first joined here about a month or so ago I thought gee all these probs., everything is so tecnical now maybe I should just forgo the fish. Then I just kept reading and did things to suit myself , now I do my regular water changes 2 each week, vacum the gravel, I test the water once a week. My fish are happy and Iam happy.
 
Mooch obliged folks. Thanx for understanding and not telling me to swill bildge water or "take a hike son." Pretty clear on what's oop now. And to rdd 1952 a special call out for understanding my position of scepticism w/o taking offense.
 

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