Cycle With Fish...10gal

[tim1]

Another one of my newbie questions...
Since I joined this forum I've learned a lot, and one of those things are the "cycle" that each new aquarium has to go through. Well, I have a 55 gal aquarium and a 10gal one now. My 10g is new(about 14 days) and contained 9 fish. I removed my cories and snails and put them into the 55 gal since I learned about the cycle, as I don't want them to die.
I have 3 Zebra's left and 2 Ghost shrimp. I will put the Ghost Shrimp into the 55 gal tomorrow, and will leave the Zebra's as I've read that they are hardy.
Now my question is if I've ruined anything in the cycle? My Nitrite levels have been going up(at 0.75ppm right now) and my Ammonia levels have been pretty steady(around 1.0ppm). I've been doing daily 30% water changes, and my fish seem happy.
Is there anything else I should do?

Thanks.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Tim,

I'm curious about why you are choosing the cycle the 10G with fish? At Amm=1,NO2=0.75, the zebras are being hurt. The ammonia can cause permanent gill damage and the nitrites are binding with their hemoglobin, taking away space for oxygen molecules, thus suffocating them in a minor but real way.

It sounds like you've got that big 55G right there and could just move these last little fish over and do a fishless cycle on the 10 gallon. If you are new to the fishless cycling concept this gives you a chance to try it out and add another skill to your fishkeeping toolset. You could always use a little media from the big tank and watch the fishless cycle go very quickly. (Maybe I'm misunderstaning you and you've already done this!)

Also, noticing the 0.75 nitrite measurement, I wonder what test kit you are using? Is it liquid based or strips?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[tim1]

Hi,
I got the 0.75 measurement from API master kit. I said 0.75 because the colour looks like it should go in between 0.50 and 0.75.
I'm doing the fish cycle right now because my 55 gallon had 2 fish in it for over a week because the other ones got to big and I had to give them away. Then I had to change a lot of my water because it was very "hard", so now I don't want to add to many fish at the same time to the aquarium, or bacteria won't be able to handle it(as I've read). I guess maybe I'll add the rest of the fish tomorrow.
And use media from the big tank? What do I need to do, cut some sponge out of the other and put it into my tank, or what?
Thanks for your quick response!

 

[waterdrop]

Oh good, I was hoping you were using a liquid kit like the API.

So, your post makes it sound like maybe the 55G is not cycled either? Or maybe it is cycled and I just misunderstand. Have you run tests on your 55G and it keeps amm & nitrite at zero for two days despite having fish in it? That would be a pretty good confirmation the big one is still cycled ok.

If the big one is cycled then it would be much better to just move the last of the fish over to it. The filter in the big one, assuming its cycled, will rapidly increase its bacterial population to handle the slight gain in load from the zebras, certainly it should within 2 or 3 days I would think.

And yes, if you do have a cycled filter in the big tank then you can move as much as 1/3 of one of the media types that you consider to be your bio-media over to the new filter to help seed it with good bacteria. If you only have sponge, you should get another new sponge of the same shape, cut(with scissors) one third of new sponge and replace it where you take out the one third of dirty sponge. Keep the dirty sponge wet of course in its own water and move it into some space you can fit it in in the new filter's bio-media area. If you have ceramic rings or pebbles, it's even easier to make a similar transfer.

Hope this helps. Watch for other advice too, I'm just one more drop in the pond!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[LosC519]

The more daily water changes you do the more you slow down the cycling process. And with less fish the longer it will take to establish good bacteria and complete the cycle.

 

[tim1]

Hmm OK, I will take this into consideration.

Waterdrop, my 55gal is cycled, as I've had fish living in it for 2 years, so I guess I'll move the rest of the fish over to it.

 

[darryl864]

The more daily water changes you do the more you slow down the cycling process. And with less fish the longer it will take to establish good bacteria and complete the cycle.

I read somewhere on this site that small frequent waterchanges whilst cycling with fish is a good thing as it keeps levels at a lower level which is better for the fish. There was also evidence to suggest that this does not slow down the cycle.

If anyone can find this thread please post a link. I have looked but cant seem to find it now.

Darryl

 

[waterdrop]

The more daily water changes you do the more you slow down the cycling process. And with less fish the longer it will take to establish good bacteria and complete the cycle.

I read somewhere on this site that small frequent waterchanges whilst cycling with fish is a good thing as it keeps levels at a lower level which is better for the fish. There was also evidence to suggest that this does not slow down the cycle.

If anyone can find this thread please post a link. I have looked but cant seem to find it now.

Darryl

I think its possible you may be both correct. It may be that what LosC is saying is that technically, a water change can indeed slow down the cycling process in that of course taking out tank water removes a corresponding amount of ammonia that is in that water, thus you are taking away food from the bacteria and reducing their stimulus for population increase. (In fishless cycling you immediately add that ammonia back in.)

But in fish-in cycling, you have no choice but to do whatever water changes are necessary to keep ammonia and nitrites down at zero and you have to rely on the in-between periods of fish respiration and waste to re-stimulate the bacteria somewhat. If you have fish in, then you are feeding and perhaps have live plants that are putting off some dead material, so you quickly get back some ammonia for the bacteria in an operating tank.

I think, in fact, fishless and fish-in processes wind up taking about the same amount of time on average, but different peoples experiences often make them have different opinions about this statement.

One really has little choice, if informed correctly, but to do reasonable water changes and maintain the tank carefully while a fish-in cycle is happening, and of course testing more frequently for ammonia and nitrite during that period.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[tim1]

Well, I put the rest of the Zebra's into the 55gal, so I'll be continuing with a fish-less cycle. Will buy some ammonia today and see how it goes.

 

[Faythee]

I would take the filter off of the 10 gallon and put it on the 55 gallon to get it cycled. Seems easier and quicker to me !

 

[MermaidMel]

I would take the filter off of the 10 gallon and put it on the 55 gallon to get it cycled. Seems easier and quicker to me !

Was just about to post that advice it's spot on, I cycled a 6 gallon this way in under a week

 

[tim1]

I don't really want to do this, as I want to learn how to cycle. I am just this kind of person

I bought some ammonia from Walmart made by a company called "Goldex". It says it contains no phosphates or fragrances, and it doesn't bubble when I shake it. Is the standard amount of ammonia contained in household ammonia cleaning detergents 9.5%?

 

[waterdrop]

Tim,

Are you sure you want to go through with this?? Faythee and MermaidMel are very experienced and that's a great suggestion they are talking about. Fishless cycling, as you can see in my and Lioness and some other recent theads can take a really long time starting from scratch! I mean, I'm the same way as you and want to understand and experience the real thing, but the comments about patience are for real!

That being said, it sounds like you did your homework regarding the ammonia. The 9.5% is quite common. In one relatively recent thread, the member did the math based on the 9.5% and their tank size and the amount they put in was spot on when tested. Personally, I just made sure I would be low and then added some more and it got up to the ppm I wanted.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[tim1]

Yes, I do want to go through with this because I want the experience, and because my bigger tank is going through a mini-cycle right now so I don't want remove even more bacteria from it. Maybe in a few days when the mini-cycle is over I'll take some media from it, but for now I will do the fish-less cycle.
Thanks for your help!

 

[waterdrop]

ok, Let's see... You've picked up the ammonia. I use two glass droppers. One is always for helping adjust the level of test water in the test kit test tubes. The other dropper is always for getting ammonia out of the bottle and into the tank. For me, the ammonia dropper always sits on its own paper towel. Also I have a small white towel handy for drying the outside of test tubes and my hands etc.

Run the "amount" tests on a gallon or two of tap water. See how many drops it ultimately takes to get to 4ppm or 5ppm (pretty hard to tell those colors anyway.) Record that amount (and everything you can, even if it seems obvious or trivial at the time) in your log notebook.

Review your filter. Post the types of media here and decide if you want any changes to it before you start. Are you getting 50 gallons per hour of flow from it? That would be about right (40-60 G/Hour) for a 10 gallon I think. Is your heater working correctly and able to maintain about 82-86F? Will it be a bare tank cycle or will you have substrate and plants?

You'll want to review the fishless article and see if you have any starting out questions. When adding to your thread don't hesitate to repeat tank size, the fact that its a fishless cycle, the day you are on and any extra descriptive stuff in addition to test results. Some like to post a lot of test results, others like to just zoom in occasionally for questions. Either way is ok.

That's all I can think of tonight! Good Luck getting ready. ~~waterdrop~~