Crystal Red Shrimp

[Far_King]

I've a small tank I want to use to keep some shrimp in.  It's only 13 litres but should be sufficient.
 
Ideally I've love to keep some Crystal Reds in there but I know they're very fussy about water parameters and like water with a low pH (around 6.5), GH of 4-6 too.
 
Is this likely to be achievable without RO water?  My pH is generally around 7.8 out of the tap.
I believe CO2 would only affect the pH slightly as it's so hard and would not do anything to lower the overall hardness.  Is it too unpredictable for tank this size if I were to have it planted?
Would water softening treatments be suitable if I mixed before adding to the tank?
 
Can anyone provide some guidance and hint/tips on the best way to condition the water and a suitable environment.  Would a fully planted tank be best?
 
Is it difficult to keep a filter fully mature in a shrimp only tank?  I've heard shrimp produce very little waste themselves and barely add to a bio-load.  Would this require further supplements?  Are there any other supplements apart from a water conditioner that are advisable for shrimp keeping?
 
I do have other shrimp currently (Red Cherry, Amano and Bamboo) but they're all in community tanks with fish.
 
 

 

[Ltygress]

If shrimp is all you plan to keep, the bio load doesn't need to be big. The filter will "mature" for the number of shrimp, and stay that way. Excess bacteria will die off, but then you don't need that excess bacteria if you never put anything else in there.

As for the water, I'm going to be keeping discus soon and plan to use a discus conditioner which softens the water and lowers the PH. But from what I'm gathering about shrimp, they may PREFER something, but can usually handle the opposite as long as they are acclimated slowly. But then again, you don't want to buy shrimp living in hard water and dump them in soft water anyway, no matter what they prefer.

 

[Far_King]

Thank you for the reply.
 
At the moment the filter I have for that tank is an internal filter with sponge media.  Capable of filtering 50 litres.  However I was considering an external filter (cannister) which would enable me to have a far larger volume of water which would help in dealing with any fluctuations.  I may even look at external with heater which would in essence be similar to having a sump.  I'm not sure if this would be overkill or if this would be a better way to go.
 
I also want to keep Discus at some point but will be a few months away yet so I could invest in an RO system at that point.
Talking to the guys in the LFS, they have a separate system entirely for the shrimp filtration.  I'll need to get a few more details as I'd like to match my water as closely to theirs as possible.  

 

[Far_King]

All ideas and suggestions welcome.  I'm really keen to hear from others who've managed to care for this type of shrimp and to know what your set-ups are please?

 

[Baccus]

I have tried a couple of times keeping crystal shrimp and sadly failed each time. It could be a combination of wrong water for their liking but I think mainly it came down to heat. My tanks get incredibly hot in summer and there is nothing I can really do to bring the temperature down for weeks on end.
 
The main points for crystal shrimp is try to get shrimp from a local breeder, that way hopefully you are half way secure in having the shrimp semi if not totally accustomed to your local water paramaters of gH and pH. Also by going local if possible the shrimp are less likely to have become stressed from long travel from breeder to eventual seller and all the problems confinement with cramped conditions and decreasing water quality can cause.
Water quality and stability are very important so the less fluxuations you can get in a tank the better for the shrimp, this includes wild temperature ranges and pH and gH. This is where a sump would help because it is going to hold more water volume and help keep parameters stable, as aposed to only the one nano tank trying to maintain everything.
 
While shrimp on their own and in small numbers do have only a small bioload, as their numbers increase so does their bioload, but a filter and tank should be able to keep up with the steady increase of population growth.
 
Plants as I am sure you are aware are very important for shrimp, especially things like moss and fissiden. However when getting any plants for a shrimp tank ensure it has not been treated for any pests because it will tend to hang on the plant and end up poisoning your shrimp. The only other problem with plants like moss is the small shrimplets and even adult shrimp will hide in it and can hitch hike to other tanks if your putting excess plants in another tank, they can fall on the floor and be lost during plant transfers.
 
I would also be very careful what substrate you decide to use with your shrimp. There are quite a few shrimp substrates around now, but from memory they need changing on a yearly basis to keep them active. Also speaking from experience shrimplets are very good at hiding down in the gaps in a gravel substrate and only emerge again after you think you have finally caught them only to find one or two out and about later. Sand can be good in this regard for shrimp because you will be able to scoop up a small amount of sand with shrimp and if the net is not too fine sieve the sand out of the net back into the tank leaving you with the shrimp.
 
A word of warning if you planned on keeping any shrimp with your discus, don't. My sister tried it with cherry shrimp and the discus got quite a liking for cherry shrimp, so much so it compacted its intestines.

 

[Far_King]

Thanks for that Baccus.  And don't worry, the shrimp will be kept well away from and Discus
 
I'd not considered a particular substrate just for shrimp.  I was thinking about a sand or a sand and plant fertilizer underlayer.
 
i would no doubt use moss from one of my other tanks rather than get new moss from elsewhere.  This way I'll know that it's contaminate free.
I'm thinking of planting some sort of grass into the substrate and carpeting the tank, as well as a few other smaller plants, small pieces of wood etc. I've got a sort of forest scape in mind.
 
Given what you've said I'll definitely investigate the possibility of a cannister filter to add to the water volume.
Clarity of the water and maintaining the best parameters for the shrimp is my biggest concern in all this.
And you've mentioned the temperature.  Any of the rooms I'd put this tank in suffer from being cold in the winter and hot in the summer but hopefully not so hot that the tank will overheat or so cold that the heater will struggle to cope.

 

[StevenF]

RO systems are typically very good at removing calcium and magnesium.  Without those two elements shrimp cannot molt and will die.  You may have to supplement with calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate.   Or make sure you have some lime stone or shells in your tank substrate.  I could not keep my shrimp and plants alive until I started to supplament my RO water.

 

[Far_King]

Thanks to everyone so far for the feedback.
 
I managed to get hold of some literature last night about some of Europe's top shrimp breeders.  
I'll have to get my nose into these books.  I read one chapter last night about some guy in Holland who uses well water.  Sadly not available to me!
 
Steven, the point you make about replacing the minerals is a good one.  I'm definitely going to go the cannister route with a sponge filter on the outtake so I may be able to put some shells into the cannister to help re-mineralise the water.  There are products available which can reconstitute RO without raising the KH but can restore TDS levels.  
I've not had to alter water parameters before in this way, so I'm a bit reticent as to the best way to do it as I want to make sure everything stays alive and there are no fluctuations in quality at any time.

 

[Baccus]

Even with using RO I think you can still use the dedicated shrimp substrate this should replace the necessary minerals into the water, but it may "burnout" quicker from using RO water.
Many people I know use rain water they collect, but again this will need minerals added back to it. Also depending on where you live rain can have just as much chemicals and pollutants in it as town water. Never for example use water that has been collected off your house roof since it has had pollution from traffic etc settle on it between rain falls and would then end up in your collected water.
 
Is it possible to find a local breeder of the CRS in your area? Perhaps they already have shrimp at are accustomed to your local water paramaters.
 
Or you could go with low grade CRS (these are generally hardier since they have not been line bred for generations to "prefect" a particular morph), that way you can learn on the low grade and possibly breed your way up to higher grades. It takes longer doing it this way but at least your shrimp are used to your water and tank conditions. Also keep in mind that shrimp can change their colour at great deal more than just their genetic bred for colour. I have seen shrimp that looked washed out and poor grade in one tank, go into a tank with different parameters and literally look stunning. So much comes down to not only giving the shrimp the water parameters they prefer but also the foods you give them can greatly enhance them even if the water is not exact.

 

[Far_King]

I do have a water butt, like you say though, I'd not be certain what contaminates may be in the water.
 
I have ordered some specific substrates.  
 

http/dennerle.com/en/products/aquaristic/aquascaping/soil-fertilization/scapers-soil


http/dennerle.com/en/products/nano-aquaristic/nutrient-medium-gravel/nano-shrimps-gravel-bed-3

 
One as a lower level to allow the plants to root and the other as a top layer.  I've ordered a couple of Kg of both so they should last me a while if I need to replace any at some point.
 
I've ordered a filter too.
 
http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/eden-501-external-filter-p-12640.html
 
The reviews I've seen on it are good and it's more compact than a lot of cannister filters.  No doubt I'll rip out the media and stuff my own in.  I may even add some peat to help lower pH.
 
I have a nice compact Hydor heater as well so things are coming together.
 
CO2 and RO are the bigger investments if I go down those routes.  And I need to do some reading up on the best plants to use too.