CPD clamped fins

[C-Monster]

I have a 24 gallon tank, freshwater, planted, with a combination of fluval stratum and eco complete. I have a few nano fish in there.

I did a water change two days ago, 20-25%. I did nothing different from the norm. I backtracked a few times and tried to think of anything different I might’ve done, but it was all the same as every other time. It’s end of summer so I’m worried the tap water was treated and this might be the result of that, because besides that I just can’t think of what could be causing this.

Everyone in the tank seems perfectly fine, including my pregnant neo shrimp and the newly hatched neo shrimps from my other female. Chili rasboras are fine, and my betta and ottocinclus are fine too. I have 6 celestial pearl danios. I noticed two of them had clamped fins after the water change - I don’t think they were that way before, I look at my tank often, but I’m also not 100% sure it wasn’t that way before. They were hanging near the top of the water but not sucking for oxygen, just swimming near the top - which is not normal. And they lost some but not all of their color. Next day (yesterday) I was hopeful because they swam with their buddies like normal, had better color, but fins still clamped. I want to note - they are normal the entire time throughout this process, I fed them an hour after water change or less and they ate normally then too!

Okay so then today goes by and same as yesterday, swimming and eating normal, color normal or close to normal, except fins still clamped (one more than the other). I just checked though and I noticed another (this would be the 3rd) that had like…partially clamped fins? It wasn’t like that before. But I’m also not 100% sure about that, I’m second guessing everything now. I’m worried I did something wrong, or that I could be doing something more to help them.

Any info or advice would be welcome! Trying to think of anything else to note - I use seachem Prime to treat the water. And after I noticed the fins clamped I treated with Krodon fish protector. Oh! Also, I did master test kit and everything is normal there. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate and nitrite, 7.6-7.8 PH - I think it’s 7.8 but I couldn’t tell for sure. Temperature of water is 74-75 - I have the fluval heater and I can’t tell entirely what number it’s on, but it’s one of the two (I think 74). And ummm, last time I did anything to the filter was about 2-3 weeks ago, which all I did was rinse it in siphoned water. I have a sponge over the intake part of the filter which I did rinse out in siphoned water two days ago when I did the water change I’m talking about.

I think that’s all the info I can think of to give y’all that would be important, but ask me anything and I’ll answer!

Thanks in advance!

 

[JuiceBox52]

Did you dechlorinate the water? I’ve forgotten a few times I’ll admit.
Fist sign of any sickness, do a 50% water change immediately

 

[JuiceBox52]

Did you dechlorinate the water? I’ve forgotten a few times I’ll admit.
Fist sign of any sickness, do a 50% water change immediately

Ah silly me I see you did treat the water

 

[C-Monster]

Ah silly me I see you did treat the water

I did treat it. And I was thinking to change the water too. But I think it’s the water change that caused this…I’m afraid to change it again..

But with another one clamping up now and they’re swimming at the top all 3 of them I just checked on them. Maybe I should change the water again?

But if I do, how much? Another 25%?

 

[Byron]

Someone with more experience in disease issues than I (fortunately) have will probably have some advice, but one thing I would suggest is to stop the Kordon fish protector. The claims it makes is nothing but remarkable, and its ingredients (so far as they make them public) questionable. This looks more like something that will clog up the fish's gills. Polymers supposedly replacing the slime coat is to be avoided.

Water changes cannot hurt providing the parameters--these are the GH, pH and temperature--of tap and tank water are the same or reasonably the same. Fresh water often solves such issues. Significant water change, meaning 70% of the tank, will not hurt subject to the parameters being the same.

 

[C-Monster]

Someone with more experience in disease issues than I (fortunately) have will probably have some advice, but one thing I would suggest is to stop the Kordon fish protector. The claims it makes is nothing but remarkable, and its ingredients (so far as they make them public) questionable. This looks more like something that will clog up the fish's gills. Polymers supposedly replacing the slime coat is to be avoided.

Water changes cannot hurt providing the parameters--these are the GH, pH and temperature--of tap and tank water are the same or reasonably the same. Fresh water often solves such issues. Significant water change, meaning 70% of the tank, will not hurt subject to the parameters being the same.

The tap water is slightly harder. My fluval buffers the aquarium water by about .2-.3 - so I could totally take out let’s say 50-70% of water but I’m just worried about the fluval buffering effect and how long that takes to react and I’m afraid that the water change was the problem to begin with.

I just don’t want to do the wrong thing. I’m trying to be a good fish mom! Lol

 

[JuiceBox52]

The tap water is slightly harder. My fluval buffers the aquarium water by about .2-.3 - so I could totally take out let’s say 50-70% of water but I’m just worried about the fluval buffering effect and how long that takes to react and I’m afraid that the water change was the problem to begin with.

I just don’t want to do the wrong thing. I’m trying to be a good fish mom! Lol

You coming and seeking out help and answers shows you are being a good fish mom

That amount of PH change shouldn’t be an issue

 

[C-Monster]

You coming and seeking out help and answers shows you are being a good fish mom

That amount of PH change shouldn’t be an issue

So, 50% water change? Final answer? Or wait for others to weigh in?

 

[JuiceBox52]

So, 50% water change? Final answer? Or wait for others to weigh in?

I would go ahead with the water change

 

[Colin_T]

Ah silly me I see you did treat the water

Did the OP treat the water before or after they added it to the tank?
How did they treat it?

Have they tested the aquarium and tap water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?

pictures and video of the fish?

 

[C-Monster]

Did the OP treat the water before or after they added it to the tank?
How did they treat it?

Have they tested the aquarium and tap water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?

pictures and video of the fish?

I treated the water before I put it in as I always do. I treated it with Prime, I think I mentioned that.

I didn’t test my tap water recently, I did test it about a month ago (only notable thing about tap water is it’s .2-.3 ph higher than my aquarium water, which taught me that my fluval buffers it that much, but all other values were 0 as they should be). But I did test my aquarium water twice in the last 24-48 hours and both times it came out perfect - 0 nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia.

Hard to get picture or video because they’re so skittish. I have been trying though, I know it can be helpful. Best I can explain though is, visibly you see clamped fins and maybe slight loss of color, but color is pretty good. They’re hanging out in the top of the water column which is not normal for them. When I walk near the tank they scatter and swim around, but still hanging near the top of the water.

I’m about to do a 50% water change because I don’t see any changes, positive or negative and it’s been 3 days now with the clamped fins. I just want to do the right thing by them, sorry if my posts haven’t been clear etc.

 

[Slaphppy7]

I must admit, your eyesight must be incredible, to see clamped fins on a CPD...or, maybe mine is just that awful, lol

Agree with the above, large WC, sans the Kordon stuff (from now on)...that small of a ph difference between your tap/tank water is insignificant

Have you tested your tap water after letting a sample sit for 24 hours? That is the most accurate way to test tap ph, after it has time to "gas-off", gasses in solution will affect ph readings (somewhat)

 

[C-Monster]

I must admit, your eyesight must be incredible, to see clamped fins on a CPD...or, maybe mine is just that awful, lol

Agree with the above, large WC, sans the Kordon stuff (from now on)...that small of a ph difference between your tap/tank water is insignificant

Have you tested your tap water after letting a sample sit for 24 hours? That is the most accurate way to test tap ph, after it has time to "gas-off", gasses in solution will affect ph readings (somewhat)

My step mom calls me ‘eagle eyes’ because I notice everything. It’s a blessing and a curse - because it’s combined with anxiety and tons of overthinking. Lol!

I noticed 1 has super clamped fins, and lost a bit of color, the second one has slightly less clamped and no color loss, and the third has all fins clamped except tail fin which is barely clamped and minimal loss of color. So they’re all reacting slightly different, but they’re grouping together on the top and the other 3 are unbothered hanging out middle and bottom of tank zipping around and swimming like nothing is wrong.

I thought Krodon was okay - I originally read about it on this forums (forget which post specifically) and then after research I saw good things about it. If it’s not good though I won’t use it - again was just trying to do right by my fishy gang. I don’t use it a lot, and never noticed anything negative come from it - not sure I saw anything positive come from it either, but it’s hard because the fish don’t talk! Now I’m going to go down a rabbit hole researching this stuff to learn why it’s bad - I noted above though when it was mentioned they don’t release info on their ingredients. That’s shady - but Coca Cola does that so I kind of get why they might not want to share.

I have not tested the water after leaving it 24 hours, I forgot I had wanted to do that, thanks for reminding me - I will get that started now! And thanks for affirming water change. Have to avoid shrimp fry, hopefully my eyes cooperate!

Thank you for your reply!

 

[Slaphppy7]

Lol, the good and the bad (keen eyesight and anxiety) aren't always a winning combination.

It's not that the Kordon is "bad", necessarily, but generally speaking, the more chemicals we add to our tanks, the more we complicate matters, especially if we have no clue of what is exactly in those chemicals

 

[Byron]

To answer the question on why the Kordon is "bad," one has to understand the physiology of fish and their relationship to what is in the water in which they must live.

Fish "drink" by assimilating water through their cells via osmosis. Any substance in the water that has the ability to diffuse across the cell membranes will thus enter the fish's bloodstream and internal organs. At the very least this causes some stress and possibly complications for the fish because there is the possible effect of the substance on the functioning of internal organs, especially the kidneys that attempt to remove these substances. As a simple example, soft water fish that are maintained in hard water will assimilate calcium from the water, and in time it builds up and blocks the kidneys and the fish "suddenly dies." This is why no additive of any sort should ever be added to the water in a fish tank except when it is essential. Water conditioners for most hobbyists is an essential substance. None of the many "snake oil" preparations are essential, and some may be very damaging. Fish need clean water whose parameters suit their preferences/requirements...nothing more if you want stress-free and healthy fish.

A study on the effect of various substances in conditioners related to the slime coating of fish is linked below. This is concerned with commercial food fish, but some of their findings are applicable to ornamental aquarium fish. It is clear that these substances have somewhat of a negative effect.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alison-Colotelo/publication/226656472_A_review_of_polymer-based_water_conditioners_for_reduction_of_handling-related_injury/links/5598108e08ae99aa62ca1f6a/A-review-of-polymer-based-water-conditioners-for-reduction-of-handling-related-injury.pdf