Corys v Rams

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AquaBarb

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Hi all,

Couple of Q's if i may..

Will be getting a nice group of corys soon (6-8 bronze or peppers)

They will be going in a 200 litre (53g) planted tank. Im also considering getting a single/pair of bolivan rams one day.
Corys
Id like to get 1 mixed species of corys. For example 4 black bronze's with 4 albino bronze's. Is this ok schooling wise? Or is it best to get 8 of 1 colour?
Rams
With the rams liking lower territory like the corys, will they happily coexist together?

Thanks in advance
 
I think that fish should only be kept with other fish that naturally co-exist with them in their natural habitat. Species tanks and biotope aquariums (if I am using that term correctly) are the most successful. While they should be good tank mates, there could be an underlying hostility that neither they nor we understand.
 
I won't dispute that the ideal is a true biotope. Most in the hobby would probably find that uninteresting, ironically, so we tend to have community aquaria. But not every fish will work with every other on many levels and it takes some research.

To the initial questions...yes you can have Bolivian Rams with cories. I had a male Bolivian Ram in my 5-foot tank for almost nine years (not bad for a fish that has an expected lifespan of 4-5 years max), and in that tank were 40-50 cories of several species. The Bolivian owned the tank space, no doubt about that, and every other fish knew it.

At feeding time is when you will see the most interaction, as both cories and Rams feed from the substrate. My Ram didn't have any difficulty...as soon as a cory decided to chomp down on the Ram's intended pellet/disk/tab, the cory got a slight "push" and lost out. Being well protected, this pushing and shoving did not damage the cories, and sometimes they were back within seconds to try again. But the Ram lived well beyond his lifespan, and I still have the cories today.

If you intend spawning the Ram, with a suitable mate (the pair must bond or this will not be successful) this is where the cories will win out. Being nocturnal, they will eat the egg clutch, or if the eggs survive, eat the shoal of fry, during darkness when the Rams are unable to adequately protect their eggs/fry. I had a pair of Rams in this tank, and four times they spawned and each time the eggs (once the fry) disappeared during the night, to the cories no doubt. I once observed two cories come upon a Blue Ram with a fry shoal, during daylight, and within seconds the fry were gone; the Ram had no luck fending off armoured cories once they knew what was on the menu.

Now to the cory question...mixing species in most cases is not a problem. I have had dozens of cories, mostly wild caught species, for a couple of decades now, and while I sometimes like to get a decent sized group of a species, sometimes for whatever reason I can only get one or two or three and they are all together. Panda cories do seem to prefer their own species much more than most others, though my Corydoras duplicareus are together a lot, in pairs/trios [there are 8 of this species]. But I see every species chumming around with other species all the time, and some even cross-breed if they are in the same lineage. And that is where we come to the difficulty.

Provided your cories do not spawn, or if they do you do not release the fry into the hobby but retain them until they die, mixing species is not a problem. But fry from possible cross-breeding if it occurs (and it can) should never be released into the hobby as this can weaken the gene pool of the species. In today's world where species are declining, aquarium-raised fish may be the only hope for some not to become extinct, and the species gene pool must be safeguarded.
 
Byron, your knowledge of the hobby is unbelievable. Your like wikipedia you can ask questions too! Just brilliant.

I dont intend to spawn either species intentionally. My main worry was with aggression. Specially if i did get a pair of rams which did bond and spawn.

You mentioned you had a single male ram and a pair in your tanks before. in your experience would you say the ram on its own was happy or is it better to have company with this species?

With the corys i want 6-8 of 1 species but if possible mixed colours. But only if they would act and live the same way they would if they was all 1 coloured specie. (Hope that makes sense)
 
With the corys i want 6-8 of 1 species but if possible mixed colours. But only if they would act and live the same way they would if they was all 1 coloured specie. (Hope that makes sense)

Each species of cory will be the same colour/pattern throughout that species, and there are presently more than 160 described or known species of Corydoras. The only exception is the "albino" form or the "long-fin" form of a few species. So a group of say Corydoras aeneus (the Green or sometimes Bronze Cory common name) will all have the same basic colour/pattern. Sometimes there may be a slight variation, but it is minimal.

You can mix species as I outlined previously, and the cories seem to chum around just the same. The main thing is number; the more cories in the group the better for them. This is programmed into their DNA and must be provided.

You mentioned you had a single male ram and a pair in your tanks before. in your experience would you say the ram on its own was happy or is it better to have company with this species?

This species, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus, is found in slow-moving streams and still waters (ponds) of the Rio Guapore and Rio Mamore systems in Bolivia and Brazil. Observations made in the habitat suggest that this species lives in solitude (individual fish alone) apart from reproduction periods (Linke & Staeck, 1994). Single fish are therefore good cichlids for a community aquarium. More than one can be housed if the tank provides sufficient floor space for individual territories but this requires at least a 4-foot tank. The fish remains in the lower third of the water column, spending most of its time browsing the substrate for bits of food. A single male Bolivian Ram makes one of the most ideal "specimen" fish in an average-sized [meaning tanks that are minimum 30 inches in length up to four feet length] community aquarium of smaller peaceful shoaling fish and catfish. It will consider the entire tank its own territory, and it will communicate this to every fish in the tank--and enforce it when necessary [anecdote below].

As for pairs to spawn...like all dwarf cichlids the pair must select each other and bond. Any male will not accept any female and vice versa. It is usually fairly easy to see likely bonded pairs in a tank of this species. Even so there is no absolute guarantee that the fish may not turn against one another after a few spawnings, but it seems less likely if they bond to begin with. So if you want to observe spawning, which is certainly interesting, and do not mind if the fry don't necessarily make it (letting nature take its course), finding a bonded pair is the way to go. Or, a single Bolivian Ram, a male preferably as they have a bit more "personality," will work. The other fish in the aquarium must be peaceful, and not overly active. Rams, like all neotropic cichlids, are sedate fish and should never be combined with active fish (fish like danios and most barbs are out) nor those with a tendency to fin nip.

The anecdote. I had a male Bolivian Ram in my 5-foot Amazon riverscape some years ago, along with the 40+ cories and about a hundred plus upper characins including a group of 8 Bleeding Heart Tetras. One day I noticed the Bleeding Hearts were clustered together mid-tank (length-wise) and just above mid-line (vertically). The Ram had positioned himself half-way between the group and the substrate. If one of the BH's began to swim out of the group, the Ram would turn toward them and swim a few inches, and the tetra would immediately re-enter the group. This lasted for some time. I hadn't seen what initiated it, but the Ram must have been annoyed by the BH's, perhaps beecause they were attempting to eat "his" selected shrimp pellet or whatever. He had had enough, and laid down the law as it were--and the tetras didn't intend arguing. Fish communicate visually, but also by chemical signals, pheromones (read by the species) and allomones (read by other species) and the species usually have enough sense to understand the consequences if they do not obey.
 
Your Amazon tank must of been great to watch. 40+ corys...wow!

Thats cleared it up for me thank you.

If i do go for a bolivan rams i think a solo male will fit my tank better going of your advice. my tanks 40 inches wide so not big enough for a pair, but now i know their ok solo that will be fine.

Think i may go for 8 cory with a mix of 4 normal, 4 albino.. peppers or bronze.

Thanks for your time Byron, your info/advice is always appreciated. People like yourself and Colin are invaluable when it comes to newcomers in this hobby
 

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