Cory type fish for hard water?

[itiwhetu]

Interesting, how does one tell if SF has wrong information and how does one tell if fish are wild caught or not at LFS, as we all know information from most LFS are to be taken with a rather large dose of salt in most cases.

I personally would like to get a Whiptail of some sort if cannot get cories for hard water but I certainly won’t get them if this is detrimental for the whiptail if they don’t fare well in hard water.

Is there any real way to prove or disprove this information regarding whiptails in soft/hard water?

By the way, I do apologise to the OP, @CaptainBarnicles for hijacking his thread. Sorry, can’t resist asking questions sometimes….

What I suggest is buy a copy of Dr. Axelrods Atlas of freshwater fishes. Then we were taught to go 0.2 pH either side of his recommendations. I have just looked up spawning Silver Dollars on SF nothing that is written is how I got mine to spawn.

 

[itiwhetu]

I know that SF is the preferred site for information. I respect that. Any site or book that says a fish can live in pH 6-8 is saying it will live anywhere. That is ridiculous, fish have way more precise requirements than that. I will stop there before I get myself in trouble.

 

[Colin_T]

Interesting, how does one tell if SF has wrong information and how does one tell if fish are wild caught or not at LFS, as we all know information from most LFS are to be taken with a rather large dose of salt in most cases.

Most pet shops in Australia label wild caught fish as wild caught. The wild caught fishes will usually cost a lot more than captive bred fishes from Asia.

eg: We got some wild caught Pterophyllum altum angelfish in. They were from a river somewhere in the Amazon. The fish got labelled as "Pterophyllum altum - Rio Negro (or whatever the river was called)" and they cost about $200 each retail, compared to captive fish from Asia that sold for about $30 each and did not have a river system with their name.

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Wild caught fishes will turn up on wholesale lists for 2-3 months a year and that is it until the following year.

eg: A lot of Betta species and unusual Corydoras and other catfishes are wild caught and appear on the wholesaler/ supply lists from say February to April and then the fish are no longer available. So if you see a fish in the shop and it's only available for a few months every year, then it is probably wild caught.

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Most wild caught fishes are sold as adult fish and you don't normally get young or baby wild caught fishes in pet shops.

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Is there any real way to prove or disprove this information regarding whiptails in soft/hard water?

Find out where they come from and look up the water chemistry for that river/ area.

As a general rule, fishes found in the upper reaches of rivers, a long way from the coast, in freshwater creeks and rivers will usually have soft water. This is due to the rainfall being less contaminated by runoff at the upper reaches of the river. Rain water has 0 GH and a pH of 7.0. So any areas that are exposed to high amounts of pure rainwater will have a low GH and generally neutral to low pH.

Fishes found closer to the coast will usually be found in harder water or even brackish water. This is due to the tides taking seawater upstream a short way and increasing the pH, GH and KH. Minerals dissolved in the water build up more as the water moves further downstream.

Fishes found in blackwater (water that is stained yellow, brown or black from tannins) will usually be found in acid water. This is due to the tannins dropping the pH. Tannins are from dead plant matter breaking down in water. A cup of tea turns yellow or brown due to the tannins released from the tea leaves.

The above is mostly true but there are brackish water environments that have lots of tannins and a high pH and GH. But for the most part is it a good way to judge what the water chemistry will be like.

If a fish is found up in the hills in rainwater, the water will be soft and have a neutral pH. If fish are found near the mouth of a river, the water will probably be harder and usually have a higher pH.

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Whiptail catfish are from South America in the Amazon, which is a rainforest habitat and has lots of rainfall. This suggests the fish come from soft water. There is lots of rotting plant matter in the Amazon rainforest and this will drop the pH of the rainwater when it is in the rivers.

If the fish came from Lake Tanganyika or Lake Malawi, then they would come from water with a lot of minerals in due to the limestone rocks in these lakes. The lakes are not connected to the ocean and when the water evaporates, it leaves minerals behind. When it rains the lakes fill up but don't overflow and run off into the ocean, this means all the minerals remain in the lakes.

 

[itiwhetu]

Most pet shops in Australia label wild caught fish as wild caught. The wild caught fishes will usually cost a lot more than captive bred fishes from Asia.

eg: We got some wild caught Pterophyllum altum angelfish in. They were from a river somewhere in the Amazon. The fish got labelled as "Pterophyllum altum - Rio Negro (or whatever the river was called)" and they cost about $200 each retail, compared to captive fish from Asia that sold for about $30 each and did not have a river system with their name.

-----
Wild caught fishes will turn up on wholesale lists for 2-3 months a year and that is it until the following year.

eg: A lot of Betta species and unusual Corydoras and other catfishes are wild caught and appear on the wholesaler/ supply lists from say February to April and then the fish are no longer available. So if you see a fish in the shop and it's only available for a few months every year, then it is probably wild caught.

-----
Most wild caught fishes are sold as adult fish and you don't normally get young or baby wild caught fishes in pet shops.

-------------------

Find out where they come from and look up the water chemistry for that river/ area.

As a general rule, fishes found in the upper reaches of rivers, a long way from the coast, in freshwater creeks and rivers will usually have soft water. This is due to the rainfall being less contaminated by runoff at the upper reaches of the river. Rain water has 0 GH and a pH of 7.0. So any areas that are exposed to high amounts of pure rainwater will have a low GH and generally neutral to low pH.

Fishes found closer to the coast will usually be found in harder water or even brackish water. This is due to the tides taking seawater upstream a short way and increasing the pH, GH and KH. Minerals dissolved in the water build up more as the water moves further downstream.

Fishes found in blackwater (water that is stained yellow, brown or black from tannins) will usually be found in acid water. This is due to the tannins dropping the pH. Tannins are from dead plant matter breaking down in water. A cup of tea turns yellow or brown due to the tannins released from the tea leaves.

The above is mostly true but there are brackish water environments that have lots of tannins and a high pH and GH. But for the most part is it a good way to judge what the water chemistry will be like.

If a fish is found up in the hills in rainwater, the water will be soft and have a neutral pH. If fish are found near the mouth of a river, the water will probably be harder and usually have a higher pH.

---------
Whiptail catfish are from South America in the Amazon, which is a rainforest habitat and has lots of rainfall. This suggests the fish come from soft water. There is lots of rotting plant matter in the Amazon rainforest and this will drop the pH of the rainwater when it is in the rivers.

If the fish came from Lake Tanganyika or Lake Malawi, then they would come from water with a lot of minerals in due to the limestone rocks in these lakes. The lakes are not connected to the ocean and when the water evaporates, it leaves minerals behind. When it rains the lakes fill up but don't overflow and run off into the ocean, this means all the minerals remain in the lakes.

You are doing really well tonight, your new living situation has sparked up a few brain cells. Good to see.

 

[Wills]

Right, so SF are completely wrong?

I can show you a number of fish that have such a broad range of hardness requirements Im fairly certain it’s fish with a big distribution and some of them start to border on coastal waters which will be harder but there are also hard water areas in South America, limestone and the like is found the world over but they don’t have common collection and export locations. I’ve had the discussion with Byron before and even though they have this rating on SF it’s best to assume they will do best in softer water as it’s unlikely they will be from or descended from hard water locations.

I do have the opinion though that while it is best to choose fish suited to your water most fish will do better with a dedicated aquarist than being left in stores to go into any old tank with sloppy maintenance and no knowledge - we are at the end of the day a small part of the hobby and we are not going to change a global industry.

 

[Colin_T]

You are doing really well tonight, your new living situation has sparked up a few brain cells. Good to see.

what new living situation, I'm still in the car bumming wifi off the hardware store or maccas, and I have a usb internet dongle thing for when they are closed and I wake up (get woken up by the policia) and can't get back to sleep

 

[itiwhetu]

what new living situation, I'm still in the car bumming wifi off the hardware store or maccas, and I have a usb internet dongle thing for when they are closed and I wake up (get woken up by the policia) and can't get back to sleep

Bugger Colin, I'm sorry I thought you must have gotten things sorted. I feel for you.

 

[Colin_T]

the housing crisis here is worse now than before and it's going to hit the fan in 2 months when the government opens the border to allow people back into Australia.

The only thing I've managed to do since being in Perth is get 1 jab (the covid vaccine, not someone touching my bottom) and a phone but still trying to work out the phone.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Interesting, how does one tell if SF has wrong information and how does one tell if fish are wild caught or not at LFS, as we all know information from most LFS are to be taken with a rather large dose of salt in most cases.

I personally would like to get a Whiptail of some sort if cannot get cories for hard water but I certainly won’t get them if this is detrimental for the whiptail if they don’t fare well in hard water.

Is there any real way to prove or disprove this information regarding whiptails in soft/hard water?

By the way, I do apologise to the OP, @CaptainBarnicles for hijacking his thread. Sorry, can’t resist asking questions sometimes….

I don't mind at all....(and its Mrs CaptainBarnicles ) I think you've all raised an important point, Seriously Fish is where I'd usually go for research so it's disconcerting when there's inaccuracies...