Controversial stocking?

[Oli]

Hi guys, just wandering about peoples set ups and if some people have managed to successfully keep “unconventional/controversial” set ups. I only ask because a friend of mine has the following.

A 260 litre tank with a 7” Severum, 4 angelfish, and about 20 neon tetras. The tank is also planted. It has been running for 2 years and he says no issues with the Severum uprooting plants, not have any of his Neons been eaten.

Considering this tank should be chaos, it’s interesting to see how it is successful.

Interested to see who else has kept tanks which “in theory” shouldn’t work!

 

[GaryE]

I don't see why you'd expect mayhem. severum don't have large mouths, and neither do angels. It's a bit crowded, but they have gotten along in my experience. I wouldn't like the look of a tank with that many adult sevs and angels, but to each their own.
The neons are probably nervous, but again, if they're adults, they aren't likely to be snacks.

I don't think there is such a thing as controversial stocking. There is dumb and cruel stocking, and there's thought out, researched stocking that respects the needs of the fish. The first option will fail, eventually, and is of the three month wonder variety. Your friend has a reasonable plan.

 

[Oli]

Fair response, I was surprised that the Neons hadn’t become snacks, and more so that his plants had remained in tack (considering how notorious Severums are for destroying them.

Again not here to judge or critique anyone for their setups, just interested to see who has been successful in what is generally frowned upon

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I've kept goldfish with turquoise rainbowfish. Both like hard water, and their preferred temperature range overlaps. I heard a lot of dire warnings (from a different forum), but both species got along great until the goldfish outgrew my tank and moved into the pond.

 

[Oli]

I've kept goldfish with turquoise rainbowfish. Both like hard water, and their preferred temperature range overlaps. I heard a lot of dire warnings (from a different forum), but both species got along great until the goldfish outgrew my tank and moved into the pond.

 

[Oli]

Interesting to hear!

As long as peoples water parameters remain stable and there are no visible problems with the fish and their behaviour, I am always keen to see things thrive. Of course their will always be people who seem to know best and have very negative opinions, but I like to see people maintain a happy environment for their fish.

At the end of the day, even the most experienced fish keepers cannot replicate nature. It’s interesting to see people succeed with different set ups.

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

I think fish who grow up together tend to leave each other alone(ie Sevs/angels with small fish species). My father-in-law has kept Angels and Neons together forever, they were always raised together. Now try to add a full on adult fish to that tank and the neons would probably be toast, plus other heirarchy issues.

Severum are either the "destroyer of worlds" or pretty chill with plants. If you make a point to feed them veggies you want them to eat such as spinach, zucchini and green beans, they will pretty much leave your live plants alone. Not saying you can grow something delicate like baby tears with them but I have plenty of live plants with my Sevs they don't bother them.

 

[GaryE]

I once had 5 norman's lampeyes in with some young Satanoperca. It worked for quite a long time, but then one day every lampeye was eaten. It was a bad idea with a gentle Cichlid that had a large mouth, and big fish little fish eventually plays out.

I had a big, 50+ group of cardinals with 4 full sized wild caught angels, and no one got eaten. If the cardinals had been the size they often sell at, it would have been messy, but they were adults and that tank ran til I moved. They're all still living together at a friend's house, about 6 years into the set up now. Only 2 angels are still going, but the cardinal group is good.

It isn't the size of the large fish that matters, it's the size of its mouth. There are some big fish with tiny mouths, and vice versa.

Poop matters too. if you have a fish that digests like a cow, and it's put with something delicate, we can all fight about that! Likewise, still water fish with fastwater, high oxygen need fish. That's a shame to see. Cruel temperature needs mixing is up there.

I have a friend who's happy to inform you of how badly put together your tank is if you dare have even one fish from a different continent than the others. To him, keeping fish from different habitats is controversial. He doesn't like my rainbow with African riverine Cichlids tank.

 

[gilpi]

No matter what size tank, filtration etc, we will never duplicate nature. That said, the tank in question here is not ideal. Has anyone seen how big a fully grown angel can get In the “right” conditions? A severum? Will the fish live in it? Sure, they might live many years in that tank providing lots of maintenance and providing four angels in that size tank get along, which they can but not often, then add a severum to the mix. Will they thrive, grow and live to their fullest? I’m not so sure.

 

[gilpi]

I once had 5 norman's lampeyes in with some young Satanoperca. It worked for quite a long time, but then one day every lampeye was eaten. It was a bad idea with a gentle Cichlid that had a large mouth, and big fish little fish eventually plays out.

I had a big, 50+ group of cardinals with 4 full sized wild caught angels, and no one got eaten. If the cardinals had been the size they often sell at, it would have been messy, but they were adults and that tank ran til I moved. They're all still living together at a friend's house, about 6 years into the set up now. Only 2 angels are still going, but the cardinal group is good.

It isn't the size of the large fish that matters, it's the size of its mouth. There are some big fish with tiny mouths, and vice versa.

Poop matters too. if you have a fish that digests like a cow, and it's put with something delicate, we can all fight about that! Likewise, still water fish with fastwater, high oxygen need fish. That's a shame to see. Cruel temperature needs mixing is up there.

I have a friend who's happy to inform you of how badly put together your tank is if you dare have even one fish from a different continent than the others. To him, keeping fish from different habitats is controversial. He doesn't like my rainbow with African riverine Cichlids tank.

Angels and severums don't need a big mouth to kill each other, I and many others can attest to that, they are cichlids. Putting a group of angels in a tank is a tricky situation, they are not always the peaceful fish they appear to be even if you were to put four or five juveniles, once they grow, they change and if they pair up, even worse and yes there are those cases when they do get along which is rare. On the flip side, it is beautiful to see a tank with four angels getting along.

 

[GaryE]

The mouth size reference was to the neons. Certainly, angels and severum can and do bite each other to death, however, you'll note the discussion involved 'eating'. I've never seen their disputes end over a good meal.

 

[gilpi]

The mouth size reference was to the neons. Certainly, angels and severum can and do bite each other to death, however, you'll note the discussion involved 'eating'. I've never seen their disputes end over a good meal.

You're right, I got caught up into the "controversial stocking" part of it, mouth and all.

 

[Oli]

I agree in all the controversy. The post is not to support poorly stocked tanks.

He has 4 “fully grown” angles. One is a breeding pair of which he removes the eggs. The second is 2 females (he thinks)

The Severum is around 7” and male. It leaves his Amazon sword and Java fern well alone, also the school of Neons thrive and haven’t lessens in numbers.

From what I have seen, everyone is happy, there is no chasing and It remains peaceful 2 years on.

I find it fascinating to see his neons and Severum share food, as well as his Angels cohabit peacefully.

Happy fish keeping everyone

 

[Oli]

On how it originated…

I believe he started with a school of Neons along with 8 juvenile angels.

He has ended up with 4 of the original adult angels and the original neons.

He then went on to add a juvenile Severum which has now reached 7”

 

[WhistlingBadger]

It's actually pretty common for angels that grow up with smallish tetras to let them be as they get older.

I agree in all the controversy. The post is not to support poorly stocked tanks.

...and that's the problem with "controversial stocking." The vast majority of the time, the conventional wisdom is conventional for a good reason. But once in a while it's possible to do some research, usually for a specific reason (in my case, trying to find a blue fish that could do well with goldfish), and you have an honest, "Hey, this could work" moment. There's no such thing as a sure thing in this hobby, but there are reasonable chances of success. The key, as always, is to put in the time and do the research.