Community Tank

[ShyKitty91]

Hello,

I have posted before in the Gourami section of the forum about which fish I am getting. This has since changed.
I am waiting for my fishless cycle to finish (seems to be doing its thing! Finally!)

I now plan to put 1 fish of various kinds in my tank, making it a community and avoiding the possibility of eggs being laid/eaten. That would break my heart. Plus, keeps things interesting and names will never be mixed up.
I've done some research. Tried to make sure they wouldn't crossbred with each other.

An angelfish, golden gourami, bluefin killifish, guppy, umbrella cichlid, an oto, indian glassfish, german golden and blue rams, apple snail, and sunburst platy.

The rams I am concerned about breeding (though I'm sure I can avoid it by making sure they are both the same gender. Rams are easy to distinguish.)

Note: Yes, I know the platy needs a different temp then the rest. The temp of my tank is only 1 or 2 degrees C higher than the recommended temp. In my experience a fish can adapt to anything if they are aclimated properly and then those conditions remain constant.

My question is if anyone knows of any of these being incompatible from their own experiences? And is there a specific order I should introduce them? I was thinking least teritorial to most teritorial.. So the most teritorial fish could just have whats left? I've never had this many different kinds of fish together so I don't know.

 

[ShyKitty91]

Was supposed to be honey gourami not golden.

 

[coldcazzie]

NNeed to know a bit more: tank dimensions, filtration, decor, plants etc

 

[ShyKitty91]

Ah, suppose I cant expect people to go look for the other post.

My tank is 30G, with a aquaclear 300 filter, heater, and a air pump.

Intend to add one or 2 taller plants behind the rock tunnel and by the air pump tube (it bugs me that I can see it, not sure why.) Also want to put a few shorter plants behind/beside the cave, since they will melt if they touch the heater (at least I'd think they would.)

The back is verging on rock free, I pushed them all forward and used them to hold plants down.. They were in a tank 1/2 the size before.

Also in the process of drawing a backing for it. Let me tell ya.. It's alot of sheets of printer paper..

 

[coldcazzie]

Haha I imagine it is!

What are the actual measurements for the tank? I'm particularly interested in height: angelfish really need a minimum of 18 inches height wise, and that's from the surface of the substrate to the surface of the water, its not really fair to give them any less than that when they're around 12 inches from tip to tip fully grown. Although I have had them in my tank (which is 16 inches swimming space) I wouldn't really want to again, and really a tank my size (55g) is the minimum they need. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting an angel in a 30g. Sorry

If you could try to put your heater diagonally across the glass that would be better and more plants would definitely improve it. You can get ones that just have bits of stone at the bottom instead of the little trays, those would be easier for you because you wouldn't have to shift your stones around to keep them from floating away.

 

[ShyKitty91]

Haha I imagine it is!

What are the actual measurements for the tank? I'm particularly interested in height: angelfish really need a minimum of 18 inches height wise, and that's from the surface of the substrate to the surface of the water, its not really fair to give them any less than that when they're around 12 inches from tip to tip fully grown. Although I have had them in my tank (which is 16 inches swimming space) I wouldn't really want to again, and really a tank my size (55g) is the minimum they need. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting an angel in a 30g. Sorry

If you could try to put your heater diagonally across the glass that would be better and more plants would definitely improve it. You can get ones that just have bits of stone at the bottom instead of the little trays, those would be easier for you because you wouldn't have to shift your stones around to keep them from floating away.

I'm pretty sure the angel will be okay. My dad kept 5 angels in this same tank for over 10 years, none ever got sick or died until something he called the "green terror" trapped one and ate it.. With lower numbers they were vulnerable to the green terror.. And slowly all became a meal. Sad but true. I'm not sure what the green terror was.. Green, bottom dweller, spikey. I was too young to remember. Haha I'm sure they would have lived longer if it wasn't for that. His angels only got to be 4in in height and about 3in long. Even after their numbers were lowered.

Also, the tank is only 91% stocked when all the fish all full grown...
I made sure to check. The angel and gourami are both 25% of the stock though. So I know they get big.

Originally it was going to be 3 angels, 75%, 1 gourami, 25%, and an apple snail, 1%. I'd of been a little over stock.
The way I have planned now.. Has alot more space. Plus with the chances of finding ALL of the fish, since I know some are rare, the stock will likely be lower.

Were your angels altums by any chance? I know they grow alot bigger than normal ones. I've read twice the size but otherwise very similar to normal angels.

This tank is 16in tall, 15in with substrate, 36in across, and 12in front to back.

Edit: Oh, the heater is clipped to the rim of the tank and can't be submerged or I would. I considered getting a submergable one when I had the extra money.

 

[MBOU]

I have to agree, the tank is nowhere near big enough to keep an angel in it without being cruel...

But not as cruel as chosing loads of shoaling species and only keeping one of each, will be a tank of very sad fish i think...

 

[coldcazzie]

No, they were normal angels. Like most other angels, as I imagine your fathers were, they were stunted from not enough room and not enough water changes. Even at several years only they were around half the size they should have been the ones your father kept will have only grown to 4 inches because they were in an unsuitable tank, not because thats how big they get. I understand that its hard to get your head around it. If you've only ever seen stunted fish in small tanks then it's difficult to understand why that isn't ok. But if you ever saw a full grown angel as they should be, which I have (10+ inches at just under a year old) then you would understand why it is just unfair to keep them in small tanks. Seeing that fish was a real eye opener for me, especially his age. Now I wouldn't contemplate angels again until I could provide what they needed to get to that size.

I'm assuming you used a stocking calculator website to get those numbers? Those websites are good for a starting guide, but no good for sticking to religiously.

 

[ShyKitty91]

I have to agree, the tank is nowhere near big enough to keep an angel in it without being cruel...

But not as cruel as chosing loads of shoaling species and only keeping one of each, will be a tank of very sad fish i think...

I might leave the angel out for now and get it a tall tank just for it.

My dads angels might have only grew to the size of their tank. I think alot of fish do. I think letting that happen is only particularly cruel to those who die because their insides keep growing. I don't think angels do or my dads wouldn't of lived as long as they did.

Also, none of the fish I have selected are shoaling fish, I checked and doubled checked. The only fish I got mixed info about was the glass fish, which I was going to research more tomorrow.

 

[ShyKitty91]

No, they were normal angels. Like most other angels, as I imagine your fathers were, they were stunted from not enough room and not enough water changes. Even at several years only they were around half the size they should have been the ones your father kept will have only grown to 4 inches because they were in an unsuitable tank, not because thats how big they get. I understand that its hard to get your head around it. If you've only ever seen stunted fish in small tanks then it's difficult to understand why that isn't ok. But if you ever saw a full grown angel as they should be, which I have (10+ inches at just under a year old) then you would understand why it is just unfair to keep them in small tanks. Seeing that fish was a real eye opener for me, especially his age. Now I wouldn't contemplate angels again until I could provide what they needed to get to that size.

I'm assuming you used a stocking calculator website to get those numbers? Those websites are good for a starting guide, but no good for sticking to religiously.

My dad did water changes every weekend and whenever the ammonia got past 0.5. I think they were stunted though. He was in the process of getting a new tank for "green terror" when he killed all the angels. Only over a few days time.

I do use a stocking calc, but I don't rely on it. Just today I spent over 7hours online looking up selected fish and their habits and diet needs. I think I overlooked the angel quite a bit because of my dads angels though. And you're right, I have never seen a big angel, only big altums. Even at the city aquarium.

 

[ShyKitty91]

I have to admit I feel really sad that I can't get my angelfish now.. But maybe in the future.. When I have a tall tank... I can get more than one. I'll just keep thinking that.

 

[coldcazzie]

I know, they are such beautiful elegant fish, but they get so big, and really are shoaling fish.

I don't know some of the other fish in your list, but, the gourami would probably be ok alone; guppies otos and platies are better in groups; the two rams may be ok, they may right if they are both male, two females should be ok.

Which are your favourites?

If you're aiming for a nice selection of top/middle/bottom fish you could have a pair of killifish, gourami, (make sure you have floating plants for those), pair of rams, and a shoal or two of tetras/barbs/rasboras. I say one or two shoals because that would depend on the size and number of fish.

 

[ShyKitty91]

Well other than angels I guess I'd have to say my favorites are gouramis and rams. I really like bettas too but generally they like to be alone and having one fish in a tank that big would make me sad.
I only wanted one of each because I didn't want them to breed because I'd have nowhere close by to bring the babies before they got eaten.

Which actually brings up the issue of how the heck are they gonna survive being in baggies for over an hour driving home from the pet store?

Also, I've always had an oto on it's own in my tanks. I'd feed it cucumbers. Always the last to die too..

 

[Louiseness]

Which actually brings up the issue of how the heck are they gonna survive being in baggies for over an hour driving home from the pet store?

There shouldn't be any problems having them in bags for an hour or so, never had one die myself.

 

[coldcazzie]

They'll be fine. How do you think they get there in the first place? They spend hours in bags in crates on planes/in vehicles, an hour from the shop to your house is no big deal!

A betta may be ok in a community tank, but you can't mix with gouramis so if you like those I'd stick with them. As for having young, I guess that's a personal thing. I have no issues with just letting them get on with it, if anything survives, then great but usually eggs are just hoovered up as soon as they are laid, the fish get a nutritious treat! Nature is as nature does.

You could definitely add a group of otos later, but you'd need to wait until the tank was a bit more mature... what shoaling fish do you like? Brightly coloured? Active? Blue? Silver? Red?