Combined Internal / External Parasite Treatment?

[Jeynesey]

Hi all. I was wondering if there was a combined internal and external parasite treatment available in the UK, like tetra's Parasite Guard?

I have fish acting extremely weird, wihch I think is most likely to be a parasite. Generally I have flashing, lethargy, some bloating and some weird barrel rolling but no visible parasites. I have a video of the weirdness that I uploaded for a little help.
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYs3cBLNyi0

- You can see a fair amount of flashing at the start. Also a spotted blue eye with a clamped tail fin.
- 2:50 you can see a fat Celestial Pearl Danio (bloated). Maybe something. I also have one fatter spotted blue eye and one particularly fat rainbowfish. The rainbowfish deflates when you starve for a day but then as soon as she eats, she's big and bloated again. I soak the food before feeding.
- 3:25 - this is where the weirdness and barrel rolling starts.
- 5:08 - another barrel roll.
- 5:29 - and another.
- 6:20 - a closeup of the fish who's losing coordination.

I have shrimp but I can try and remove those to a small hospital tank if necessary. I have King British White Spot treatment and King British Revitalizing Tonic. Revitalising Tonic I have already tried. It didn't solve the problem.

Thanks in advance for the tips and help!

 

[snazy]

Lovely tank and fish. Sorry for being ignorant but what species are the ones with the scissor type tails?
I've used JBL spirohexol with good effect to treat hexamita, very easy way to treat. Hexamita is also known as hole in the head disease and malawi bloat. Some of the symptoms yours have are similar. Do they have stringy or white poop as well?
It's hard to tell with these parasites, they never seem to show anything that you can rely on.
I would start with a very well smashed garlic and pour it in the tank. It can make a bit of mess and make the tank stink but if the fish manage to bite a bit of it, it will give them relief at least and help the immune system.

 

[Jeynesey]

Can't edit my original post; the times are a bit off on the barrel rolls. They're 5.11 and 5.45.

Thanks for the help, snazy.

The fish you're talking about are forktail rainbowfish. They're pretty good but the alpha male is a bit of a bully. That may just be because they're not happy at the moment, with whatever issue this is. I also have spotted blue eyes and celestial pearl danios.

Yes, they have white stringy poo. I have a hell of a lot more info that I could share, but I have found in the past that if you do a really big post with lots of info, nobody replies!

I have used garlic, crushed peas and also King British Revitalising Tonic, which all probably helped but haven't cleared anything up.

Do internal parasites cause flashing around the gills?

Also, can you use the meds you mention with shrimp? I have 3 shrimp and a snail and these little guys are causing problems with what meds i can use, obviously. Very inconsiderate of them

 

[snazy]

The forktail rainbowfish are beautiful...

Shrimp can't tolerate lots of meds. I am new to them. Only have shrimp myself for 2-3 months so can't guarantee. Can't you move them out for a week? The JBL spirohexol doesn't contain copper at least. The active ingredient is dimetridazole so maybe a bit of googling will sort it out? Its good against intestinal flagellates. The signs are similar to what yours have but many parasites exhibit similar symptoms
Yes, parasites can cause flashing around the gills. Some attack the gills like gill flukes, even white spot attacks the gills in heavy cases. The flashing, white stringy poop, strange swimming is most likely a sign of internal parasites of some sort. Praziquantel is also normally good in most cases for flukes. It's non-toxic to fish so no overdose can be harmful and it doesn't need carbon to be removed from the water. You can use it in a combination with another antiparasitic med to cover more possibilities. Seachem Paraguard is antiparasitic and can be used with shrimp I think, but I am not 100% on this. After fish suffer from parasites, depending how severe it is, watch out for a secondary bacterial infection as they'll have weakened immune system and tiny wounds where bacteria can settle.

 

[snazy]

Forgot to mention that flagellates also can attach themselves to gills

 

[Jeynesey]

Thanks again for the help. What is Praziquantel please? I see it's an active ingredient but is it in the JBL stuff you mentioned? I have ordered some of that, which will be here tomorrow. I have also ordered some Primafix and Melafix for general use, possibly after this. treatment.

Still undecided on trying to catch the shrimp. I don't trust my nano tank in terms of keeping the water clean etc - it's only been going a couple of weeks. I bought it for keeping fry in. Unfortunately my two fry died yesterday - I added a java fern in with them and it must have had some toxins on it or something as they were both toast within 24 hours.

 

[snazy]

Well, Praziquantel would be the active ingredient in some combo meds on the market but can't recall which one, maybe it was one of the API meds, possibly Api General cure but it contains other stuff, may not be safe for shrimp at all, look up the ingredients. I bought Praziquantel once from ebay as a powder on its own. See how it goes with the JBL stuff first. They should stop having white poop/stringy poop the least.

Another good medication for possible other stuff is Levamisole Hydrochloride if you can find a place to buy it from. It is actually proved to be beneficial for fish, at all not toxic, improves the immune system. It doesn't treat flukes but many other germs. Here is a link with more info:

http/www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

 

[Jeynesey]

Nice one, thanks again for your time. I'll keep this thread updated.

 

[Jeynesey]

Just a little update. I've been turkey-bastering (I believe that's an official verb?)

out poo and looking at it under a microscope I ordered. In my latest sample, I have found a parasitic worm that's basically just a blob. I have been looking on this list (http/edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa041) and I think it's a Digenean trematode. I have no idea whether the JBL will work on them, or if they're the major problem, but it's a good start!

It wasn't actually in the poo though - just whizzing up and down the side of it. Quite quick the little blighter is - very hard to keep up with him on my rubbish microscope cos you have to just move the slides manually

 

[snazy]

Just googled, so it looks like flukes/trematodes. They may have a secondary one but who knows. Just found out via search that JBL argudol apparently contains praziquantel and treats that. Here is a link:

http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/jbl-argudol-100ml-p-3149.html

 

[Jeynesey]

So is the one I've got coming today no good for these?

I was thinking this morning - maybe this blob is just a harmless microfauna anyway? I'm still gunna treat something but just thought that was worth adding.

 

[snazy]

So is the one I've got coming today no good for these?

I was thinking this morning - maybe this blob is just a harmless microfauna anyway? I'm still gunna treat something but just thought that was worth adding.

Not sure really. Parasites are present in any aquarium, problem is when the fish's immune system gives up and then the parasites take over. In most cases fish probably get hit by multiple stuff and a broader spectrum is better. The JBL spirohexol is affective against a lot of stuff including for example velvet disease, but it seem JBL produces a fluke/tapeworm med in particular. You said the fish scratch their gills, so it's quite possible it's tapeworms, which is another name for flukes.
Depending on whether you get the other medication and how sure you are the fish have flukes, you can do a course of spirohexol for a week as a prevention. You normally need to add the recommended amount of tablets for the volume of water, leave it for 7 days, then do a 75% water change. You can add carbon for a day or do another large water change, then start the flukes treatment if the fish haven't stopped the white poop and flashing.

Also, maybe you can try getting a scruding from the gills of one of the fish and have a look at it via the microscope?
Or you can get some of their poop and check as well?

 

[snazy]

I was wondering what happened? Are the fish ok now?

 

[Jeynesey]

Unfortunately not. Just lost one in a hospital tank that I set up today. He was well on the way by the time I got him into the hospital tank so it was too late.
 
The worm meds didn't seem to stop the stringy poo. I think this guy who died (the alpha male forktail rainbowfish), had explosive diarrhea as I saw a poof of white cloudy stuff once and the next day he was very thin. That was about a week ago. He stopped eating today and lost all his balance and energy and died.
 
I've ordered some of this - http/www.vitamingrocer.co.uk/PraziPro-Safest-Parasite-Treatment-4-oz-p/306551.htm?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=pla&utm_content=306551
but it won't be here for ages.
 
Since this thread, I dosed the JBL stuff. After that I used pimafix and melafix as it says that's a good idea after parasite treatments. All seemed fine for a while after that but then it kicked off again about a week ago. I have a few other fish flashing again and several fish are really quite bloated.

 

[snazy]

That's no good news. Hopefully the prazi will help. Really sorry for your fish.