Columnaris Wiping Out Tank...Help!

[Colin_T]

Salt and anti-biotics but it depends on what is available to you.

You might be better off taking a fish to a fish vet and finding out exactly what bacteria is involved and getting a prescription to treat them. However, that will probably cost you more than replacing the fish.

Alternatively put the fish into a clean container and take the salt level up to half strength sea water for a few weeks.

 

[Guest14017]

This thread looks a mess TBH. There are no water quality numbers posted. Fish cannot recover if their water isn't kept clean regardless. A "heaping" teaspoon isn't a real measurement of an additive and can lead to inaccurate dosages. The fish aren't recovering at all and the disease seems to be spreading from system to system etc.

This is no offense, but the fish are still dying and the disease isn't contained at all. It's time to try someone else's recommendations. Most Columnaris strains are extremely salt resistant. Using salt may slow the progression of disease amongst the fish, but it likely won't save them.

Once again, you need a Kanamycin combo. Me and another member did tell you that. Kanamycin also treats dropsy. I saw goldfish be treated with Kanamycin and Furan-2 survive. I also saw Kanamycin used by itself for Columnaris save many of the fish.

You have livebearers, and though I didn't see your pH posted, if it is high (like above the 7ish range) the Maracyn-2 will have no effect regardless as it does not work at high range pH.

And for the love of all that is good - please don't use the freezing method to euthanize any fish. I wouldn't use that method even on cold water fish, to use it on fish that prefer warm water seems even LESS humane.

But with that said... With the treatment you're using now - I would begin to euthanize ones that appear very sick. You haven't mentioned any sick ones recovering at all. You've only briefly mentioned a slow down of the die off. Please don't allow any more fish to remain alive until only their heads are left. Poor little babies.

 

[Silencedogood]

This thread looks a mess TBH. There are no water quality numbers posted. Fish cannot recover if their water isn't kept clean regardless. A "heaping" teaspoon isn't a real measurement of an additive and can lead to inaccurate dosages. The fish aren't recovering at all and the disease seems to be spreading from system to system etc.

This is no offense, but the fish are still dying and the disease isn't contained at all. It's time to try someone else's recommendations. Most Columnaris strains are extremely salt resistant. Using salt may slow the progression of disease amongst the fish, but it likely won't save them.

Once again, you need a Kanamycin combo. Me and another member did tell you that. Kanamycin also treats dropsy. I saw goldfish be treated with Kanamycin and Furan-2 survive. I also saw Kanamycin used by itself for Columnaris save many of the fish.

You have livebearers, and though I didn't see your pH posted, if it is high (like above the 7ish range) the Maracyn-2 will have no effect regardless as it does not work at high range pH.

And for the love of all that is good - please don't use the freezing method to euthanize any fish. I wouldn't use that method even on cold water fish, to use it on fish that prefer warm water seems even LESS humane.

But with that said... With the treatment you're using now - I would begin to euthanize ones that appear very sick. You haven't mentioned any sick ones recovering at all. You've only briefly mentioned a slow down of the die off. Please don't allow any more fish to remain alive until only their heads are left. Poor little babies.

I completely agree with you. I already started the Maracyn-2 treatment so I think I'll finish it and if it doesn't work I'll try the Kanamycin combo. It is hard to get medication with the lock down and I also have a budget.

I haven't had any sick fish recover yet and I had two more mollies die last night. BUT a couple of my guppies look somewhat better; their fins are less melted and they look a little happier.

I definitely won't use the freezing method but I don't think I can euthanize any fish without clove oil.

Current Water Parameters:
ph-7.0-7.2
nitrite-0 ppm
nitrate-5-10 ppm
ammonia- 0.25 ppm

Today the tank has small white fluff all over the inside of the glass, filter tube, and air stone. Is that from the treatment or coincidental algae?

 

[Guest14017]

Algae is not normally white, you'd have to post a pic for anybody to be sure. Your ammonia is not HIGH but I would use an ammonia binder. It is true fish meds are hard to obtain right now. Online is your best bet though delivery times for non essentials may be slow. That's why I try to keep a cabinet of meds I might need. Fish disease often hits suddenly and the window to save them tends to close quickly.

And I understand the part about not wanting to euthanize but imagine the pain of having your body slowly eaten away by a flesh eating bacteria with currently no cure in sight.... Surely it is kinder to be put out of such misery.

 

[Byron]

On the fish euthanasia, the most humane method according to an article in PFK a couple of years back is the one I have used for years now. It does sometimes become necessary. I net the fish out onto a couple of sheets of paper towelling, quickly fold the shetts over and around the fish so it is completely covered by a thick layer, then lay it on a hard surface and give it a good whack. You cannot see anything and it kills the fish instantly. To the fish, it is no more stressful that netting it normally. Very humane and effective. The only other method that is as quick is to cut the head off the fish, but with small slippery fish--I can't see myself doing that.

 

[Silencedogood]

And I understand the part about not wanting to euthanize but imagine the pain of having your body slowly eaten away by a flesh eating bacteria with currently no cure in sight.... Surely it is kinder to be put out of such misery.

On the fish euthanasia, the most humane method according to an article in PFK a couple of years back is the one I have used for years now. It does sometimes become necessary. I net the fish out onto a couple of sheets of paper towelling, quickly fold the shetts over and around the fish so it is completely covered by a thick layer, then lay it on a hard surface and give it a good whack. You cannot see anything and it kills the fish instantly. To the fish, it is no more stressful that netting it normally. Very humane and effective. The only other method that is as quick is to cut the head off the fish, but with small slippery fish--I can't see myself doing that.

I don't think I have the guts to do that... I think I'm going to consider having clove oil on hand. I believe that is humane? If worst comes to worst though I will probably use the method you suggested, Byron.

I'm considering adding a third tank so that the next time something like this happens, I can separate and treat the fish without losing the whole tank.

Is there a reason why I am losing my mollies when they have no external symptoms?

Thank you all for the help and advice.

 

[Byron]

I'm considering adding a third tank so that the next time something like this happens, I can separate and treat the fish without losing the whole tank.

Is there a reason why I am losing my mollies when they have no external symptoms?

There have been various suggestions concerning the molly deaths. I do not enter such discussions as my level of experience and knowledge with disease is minimal. I do point out obvious things when I see them, and opne thing that has still not been covered is the water parameters. What is the GH and pH?

On the third tank, in some cases a "hospital" tank to treat a fish is best, in other cases it is best to treat the entire tank as is. It depends upon the "disease" or problem.

 

[Silencedogood]

I have one molly left but the guppies seem better today. They have less of the 'fungus' look and they aren't clamping their fins as much. Two of them seem to have arched backs but I wonder if that isn't from having their fins clamped for so long. The swordtails seem relatively unharmed by this (thankfully!). I also added stress coat yesterday; I wondered if that helped as well. Tomorrow is the last day of treatment so I wonder if I should do another round of the Maracyn-2?

 

[Silencedogood]

There have been various suggestions concerning the molly deaths. I do not enter such discussions as my level of experience and knowledge with disease is minimal. I do point out obvious things when I see them, and opne thing that has still not been covered is the water parameters. What is the GH and pH?

I believe I did post the parameters but here they are again (as of yesterday):
ph-7.0-7.2
nitrite-0 ppm
nitrate- 5-10 ppm
ammonia- 0.25 ppm
I haven't tested the gh or kh recently but in the past the gh has always been 180-240 ppm and kh 100-200 ppm.

 

[Byron]

I believe I did post the parameters but here they are again (as of yesterday):
ph-7.0-7.2
nitrite-0 ppm
nitrate- 5-10 ppm
ammonia- 0.25 ppm
I haven't tested the gh or kh recently but in the past the gh has always been 180-240 ppm and kh 100-200 ppm.

I did not see GH previously, but no matter. The GH and pH are at the lowest end of the range for mollies so that is not a major factor all else being good. Guppies are OK with these levels.

Spinal deformities can occur from various diseases (as well as genetics obviously). StressCoat is not going to help anything, it is a water conditioner but it contains aloe vera which is better left out of the aquarium though it is certainly not going to kill fish (unless way overdosed).

I can't asnwer about treatments as I have no idea what this is, and too many cooks in the kitchen when some (like me) don't know what they are talking about [when it comes to diseases] is not going to be helpful.

 

[Silencedogood]

I did not see GH previously, but no matter. The GH and pH are at the lowest end of the range for mollies so that is not a major factor all else being good. Guppies are OK with these levels.

Spinal deformities can occur from various diseases (as well as genetics obviously). StressCoat is not going to help anything, it is a water conditioner but it contains aloe vera which is better left out of the aquarium though it is certainly not going to kill fish (unless way overdosed).

I can't asnwer about treatments as I have no idea what this is, and too many cooks in the kitchen when some (like me) don't know what they are talking about [when it comes to diseases] is not going to be helpful.

I thought stress coat reduced fish stress?
Thank you for your help!

 

[Byron]

I thought stress coat reduced fish stress?
Thank you for your help!

Manufacturers, even reputable ones like API, make claims that are often misleading because of how one interprets words like "stress." The only way to alleviate stress is by preventing it. There is no chemical concoction that does this. As for aloe vera, this is now believed to be harmful to fish gills long-term. I cited from a scientific study in another thread recently, here it is again.

Many water conditioners are commercially available, but some are formulated only to dechlorinate water and/or bind heavy metals. These conditioners use dechlorinating agents such as sodium thiosulfate and ascorbic acid, chelating (metal binding) agents such as ethylenedianinetetra acetic acid (EDTA), and buffer-ing agents such as tris (hydroxymethyl) amino methane that restore acid–base balance. Water additives that form a protective ‘‘slime layer’’ will contain a polymer (often PVP or carboxy methyl cellulose [CMC]) or colloid (Table2). Some additives contain aloe extract from leaves of the Aloe vera plant. Manufacturers of these products claim that the Aloe vera extract promotes healing of damaged tissue. One potential drawback to water additives that contain Aloe vera extract or CMC is the addition of organic waste load that can reduce the water quality and oxygen levels in a closed system. This may not be an issue, depending on the density of fish, length of time fish are held, and oxygen content of the water. However, the effects of these substances on gill tissue are unclear. Taiwo et al. (2005) tested the survival and behavior of tilapia (Oreochromis niloticus) exposed to different concentrations of aqueous extract of A. vera for up to 96 h. One hundred percent of tilapia exposed to 50 ppm A. vera died within the duration of the experiment. Fish used in this experiment exhibited severe depigmentation and destruction of organs(including gills). The evidence of the toxic effects of A. vera on fish solidifies the need to empirically test water conditioners, and their chemical components, for potential negative effects on fish.​

It is clear that adding aloe vera to an aquarium is likely to cause stress because every substance in the water is drawn into the fish by osmosis, entering the bloodstream and internal organs. We need to be very careful what we add to a fish tank. Even medications can cause much more harm than good, if they are not effective, or contain dangerous side effects, all of which adds more stress to the fish.

Forgot to post the paper:
Harnish, R.A., etc al, (2011) "A review of polymer-based water conditioners for reduction of handling-related injury."

 

[dirty_bishop]

Terrible situation man .. I am not overly experienced, but I would consider taking all life out of that tank and putting into a hospital tank. Start the tank fresh with complete water change and gravel vac. Leave no life in there for a couple of weeks or perhaps 4 and start again with minimal fish. Like I said - I am not experienced with many aquarium illnesses but that's my 2c. Wish a few people could comment on my problem I posted earlier today. Good luck !

 

[Silencedogood]

Terrible situation man .. I am not overly experienced, but I would consider taking all life out of that tank and putting into a hospital tank. Start the tank fresh with complete water change and gravel vac. Leave no life in there for a couple of weeks or perhaps 4 and start again with minimal fish. Like I said - I am not experienced with many aquarium illnesses but that's my 2c. Wish a few people could comment on my problem I posted earlier today. Good luck !

Thank you This was originally my hospital tank until my livebearers had a baby boom.
Tomorrow I am starting the second course of the Maracyn. I still have infected/dying fish. I moved my five swordtails to my main tank since they haven't had any symptoms and they had a full course of treatment. I think I am going to try the Kanaplex if this second course doesn't work.

 

[Silencedogood]

I just ordered the Kanaplex and Furan-2. I am going to try that and see how it goes because I still have fish dying.

I am also starting a new tank ( 29 gallon) hopefully within the next week or so. Can I skip a cycle with using some of the water and filter cartridge from my already cycled 30 gallon?